My guest today is Meirav Zur. She is a theatre performer, producer, writer, and director. Her latest show is Inconceivable: The Totally True One-Woman Semi-Fertile Quasi-“Musical.”
My guest today is Meirav Zur. She is a theatre performer, producer, writer, and director. Her latest show is Inconceivable: The Totally True One-Woman Semi-Fertile Quasi-“Musical.”
105. A One-Woman Comedy Show about Infertility
Wayne: [00:00:00] Hi, Meirav, thanks for taking the time to come on the podcast. I appreciate you doing that.
Meirav: Thank you so much for having me.
Wayne: I love the general idea of what you’re doing, treating a serious subject comically basically. And just to start off for listeners, could you talk just a little bit about the show, how and where it’s performed, and a little background and so on.
Meirav: Sure. This show is called Inconceivable: The Totally True One-Woman Semi-fertile Quasi-“musical,” and that’s in quotes and it’s long and weird and odd on purpose. So it’s basically an autobiographical comedy about infertility. And that’s what it is. It’s a show of me basically telling my own infertility experiences through humor.
I have like different silly characters and weird songs and odd props, and that’s how [00:01:00] it is in the show. It’s interactive as well. It’s a really fun show. Even though the content is around infertility, which is far from being funny; it’s a very serious and not really talked about openly topic.
But I think because of that, because it’s so taboo and loaded and raw, that it can become really funny and ignite, the absurdities and realities that bring about the comedy. Yeah that’s basically it.
Wayne: In fact, I think that’s very true sort of in general where it’s a truism, but like many truisms it’s true, that the comedy can help ease the taking in of information about something, and it’s not about laughing or making fun of or anything like that, but it’s like the cliché, for a bitter medicine. If you put a little sugar, maybe it’ll be easier to take down.
Meirav: Yeah, it definitely is that. And I think when we look at comedy in [00:02:00] general most of the bigger laughs are usually about the things that we don’t talk about, but immediately connect with because for some reason we don’t talk about it. I don’t know what it is.
If it’s, embarrassment, shame, we feel we’re the only ones, whatever it is. But then when you finally see that, other people share that and you can share that and you have that connection and it’s, and it is so absurd and or disconnected or weird or shouldn’t be what it is.
And it’s funny.
Wayne: Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me a lot—I’m a big fan of standup comedy and this is like—I guess, is the term one-woman show appropriate for it?
Meirav: It’s a one woman show in the sense that it’s only me doing it. And I am unlike other productions. There are no other cast members or anyone else except me on stage.
And it’s like standup because I am there standing and saying a lot of jokes most of the time, but it’s not only proper standup because I do [00:03:00] have, I do go into characters and I have these song bits and I use props. So it’s like standup and not really like standup and it’s like a play, but not really.
And it’s like infertility. It’s like it is, but it isn’t. That’s how it is. And I like that it’s like that, it’s not really clear what it is, because that’s parallel to what I’m talking about.
Wayne: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And where I was going with the comparison to standup comedy, is that same thing that you were describing about taboo or untalked about subjects.
Yeah. That’s a very common thing in standup comedy. Yes. And often it’s about sexual things or often it’s about, it can get very hardcore and be racial things. Yeah. Like the things that are said are the things that people are thinking or feeling. But they can’t express. And I was just watching a standup special recently where, the person was, it was all, he was talking about sexual things and you could tell from the laughter in the audience that they [00:04:00] had experienced all this stuff and they were just laughing their asses off, basically.
Yeah. And it’s pretty, it’s a pretty great thing to see you.
Meirav: It’s wonderful to see. That’s like the part of the magic that I love of live, interaction and things like that. It’s just, it’s so awesome to see. I think also for the performer and also for the audience members among themselves.
It’s, Oh, we all get this. Okay. It’s great.
Wayne: Yeah. Yeah. That’s very, Oh, maybe I’m not the only one, kind of thing. So I forget the word you used now. It wasn’t collaborative, but interactive. Yes. And does that mean that you call on people in the audience to come down or to ask them questions or whatever?
Meirav: Yeah. I do it in a different way, each performance. But yeah, sometimes I bring people on stage with me from the audience. Sometimes I ask them questions, sometimes I’m talking with them. It really depends on the location and the flow of the show and a lot of different things. But yeah, it’s a lot of [00:05:00] fun and I don’t do it in a mean way.
Because I don’t like, for example, that there are some standup comedians that love to just pick on people and badger them. I don’t do that. But yeah, I do love when I have some great volunteers in the audience because I use them.
Wayne: Yeah, I’ve been at theater, actually it was a one-woman, it was a one-person show.
And I was just dying to be the person that she brought to the stage. And I never got, I didn’t get picked. But yeah, some people are totally into it and some people just look down at their shoes and hope that they’re not gonna be caught.
Meirav: That they’re not being looked at.
I know. Yeah. It’s like classroom. Don’t.
Wayne: I knew I should have read that thing. Yeah. I’m curious also, on a more serious note, were there any aspects of the topic of infertility that you felt a little bit uncomfortable treating in a comic manner? Or was it all open for comic examination, so [00:06:00] to speak?
Meirav: I will say that I did not completely tackle head on miscarriage with jokes. I think that was the only one that I was—like all the jokes I came up with were just, something didn’t work. And I said, Okay, you know what? I’ll get to that at another point, if at all. But that was just something that I, and I’ve heard jokes done about miscarriage and something didn’t sit well with that for me. So I didn’t want to use it also in my show or anything like that. In terms of as a joke topic. But I do mention it, but it’s not done in a joke form.
Wayne: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I’m wondering whether again, you’ve had the experience either on social media or in person or in reviews.
There’s a lot of people who don’t, if I can put it this grandly, really don’t understand how humor works. And I’m [00:07:00] asking you about your experience: have you been criticized for, and I have to do air quotes here, “making fun” of infertility?
Have you had that experience?
Meirav: I have to say that I’ve had it from people like through social media, people that are not connected to that, just I guess saw something about the show and then were quick to comment without even reading. But I expected that and I was very scared of that from the beginning.
I’m not a celebrity, I’m not well known. So when people see something about the show, they don’t know who it is. So immediately they’re like, Who is this person to dare laugh about this topic? Inconceivable. Don’t worry, I’m not laughing about it like I’m not, I’m not like, apologizing within the title of the show.
So you really have to see the show in order to understand that I’m not making fun of it. I experienced it. It’s not that, but I’m, I can’t, go around explaining myself. But I [00:08:00] know that I am not making fun of it, so I’m okay with it. And I’m like, Okay, once people get to the show and see it, they’ll see that as well.
And if they read more thoroughly stuff that was written about it, they’ll also see that. But yeah, there were a couple that were quick to be like, How dare you laugh at this? I think once I, I posted somewhere, I think it was in, in a support group for people dealing with infertility.
And I just wanted to say, Hey, there’s this, if you want, some sort of levity. And I was like immediately badgered, like, How dare you? They didn’t even look at what it was, and I just let it be because I was like, okay. They just don’t, they don’t know. And as they say, haters gonna hate.
It’s gonna, it’s gonna happen, I just let that go. But yeah, fortunately, for the most part, it’s really been resonating well with people.
Wayne: That’s good to hear. I think it really comes down to, I don’t want to totally dwell on this, but I think it really comes down to [00:09:00] some people, it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what humor is about, right?
Humor is not about, necessarily about making fun of things. It’s a method or a style that you use to bring out things, kind of thing. And I feel strongly anything can be treated in a humorous way, and it doesn’t mean that you’re mocking it or anything like that. So I’m glad to hear there’s not too many of them.
Yeah. Have a kind of a knee jerk reaction. Oh yeah. There’s jokes and there’s infertility. That’s a bad thing.
Meirav: But I think that’s true for most things, and I think that’s like the bad part of where we are now with our access to information, is we only see snippets of things.
And so people are just quick to judge and then, you may see a snippet of something and then the quick knee jerk reaction comments to that. And so you’re already, you already have kind of this, Okay, here’s the information that’s not even [00:10:00] necessarily complete with already people’s opinions, that’s not necessarily based on fact.
Here you are, and so you really have to stop and research for yourself and think for yourself for a minute. And a lot of people don’t do that. We’re not in that state right now. We’re just like, Okay, feed me information and whatever’s out there I’ll believe.
And it’s hard.
Wayne: And for you and maybe it was just the lack of my good searching, but I looked around, I thought I could find like maybe a snippet from the play or something like that, but I couldn’t find anything. I found the site where it lists your appearances and stuff like that.
But as far as I could see and correct me if I’m wrong, I couldn’t find like a two minute bit or a two minute compilation.
Meirav: There is, yeah. There’s a trailer. It’s on my website. If you get to my website and then you get to Inconceivable, everything is there. The trailer pictures, reviews, all that.
But you can also search for it on YouTube. It’s just, [00:11:00] it’s harder because I’m not popping up, the first one, because I’m not a celebrity yet. Yeah, but it’s there. It’s accessible and also through social media, it’s easy.
Wayne: That’s my bad then, because I missed that. Because I usually like to, if I’m talking to someone about a book or a movie or something, I like to have seen that before.
So I thought that I knew I wouldn’t be able to see the full play, but I thought I could get—so that’s my bad. I didn’t see, I didn’t come across it.
Meirav: No worries. I will try again to figure out how to make it more prominent.
Wayne: It’s not your bad. It’s my bad.
So don’t, not to worry. Don’t worry about it. I wanted to ask the question also on the other side of the question. So you’re doing a, you’re treating a serious subject in a comic way. Did you find in the writing of it that you had to remind yourself that this is theater and comedy and not a documentary or lecture so that, you didn’t go the other way, which is providing like a public service announcement kind of [00:12:00] thing.
Was that an issue at all? Or not at all?
Meirav: It wasn’t much of an issue because the whole thing started with me talking about it. I was writing and producing and directing and performing in productions for years before that; that’s what I do.
And I was doing this all the time. Meanwhile, in parallel to that, in my personal life, I was experiencing infertility and I wasn’t talking about it. So when I was ready to talk about it, I didn’t know how. Because I did not want to be lecturing and telling my story, and it’ll be so like, down and depressed and whatever.
I didn’t want it to be like that, and I didn’t want it to get like that. So I, even with my friends, that’s how I started. I started with a really small circle of friends and I was like, Okay, I’m just gonna tell them all at once. It was comedy, like that was like the only way that I could do it.
So it was actually, How can I get this information in with the comedy and not just, how can I turn this into not a lecture. [00:13:00] It was just me basically, Let me not make it only jokes and slapstick and stuff. Let’s also put in some serious matter in a way to give it kind of structure.
But it naturally happened by itself because it was just like bits and pieces and then each part had its own kind of genre. And so it was, that’s how it came to collectively be a show.
Wayne: Yeah. It’s like a, I can’t think of the right word now. I was gonna say potpourri, but what I mean is that there’s a bunch, there’s different sorts of styles like linked together and it all comes together to make a single.
Meirav: Like vignettes, but not quite. It’s just it was my way. I was like, Okay, this is gonna be my story and I’m making a show out of this. Originally it wasn’t even that, it was just really to tell my friends and they were like, You gotta make this one of your shows. But when I was working on it, I was like, Okay, if it’s gonna be a show, and it’s my story, I’m gonna tell it the way I wanna tell it. So if I wanna tell this with [00:14:00] this weird prop that I’m juggling around, I’ll do that. And if I wanna do this part in a song, I’ll do that. And of course I had in my mind what, what’s also gonna be like entertaining and what’s gonna bring the story across.
But I wanted also to stick with what works for me because I’m the one telling it and it’s like my thing. And it’s also showing how I was experiencing it. It was. This bit was going here and this, I was feeling like that, and so I wanted to show that kind of complexity and layered and weirdness of it all.
Wayne: Yeah. Yeah. No, very good. And how, I’m just curious how you went about that. I’m thinking about your process. You mentioned about, this, this bit seemed to be coverable by using a prop and this bit somehow else. Yeah. And maybe there’s a song about another bit or something like that.
Yeah. Did you do that sort of systematically? Like you had an outline and worked through that, or was it all done in discrete pieces and then you put the puzzle together? How did [00:15:00] all that work? The composition?
Meirav: Yeah. I think it was when I first said, Okay, I can use theater and comedy to tell my story.
I think I was just, Oh, there was that part and I wrote it down as a story and then there was that part and it was just, it came to me like this song, So I wrote it like that and it really was, okay, now how do I piece all these together and what kind of order do I put them in?
Wayne: That makes sense. Yeah. It’s hard to imagine. Maybe no one writes by starting on page one like you see in the movies.
Or at least in the older movies where they put in a sheet of paper and start typing.
Meirav: Chapter one. I never started with chapter one.
Wayne: Yeah, no.
Meirav: Exactly. Because there’s always a backstory.
Wayne: I [00:16:00] also watch a lot of movies, and it’s also a movie cliché because the other thing you’ll see is that that they’ll be typing and it’ll be the end, kind of thing, as if all you do is put in paper and type and it all comes out quite easily.
Meirav: And it’s done. Yes. Yeah. And then it’s so poetic because you see what’s in the frame and then outside the frame you see all the piles of thrown out paper and all the people working on the se. It’s another reason why I love movies and theater.
It’s like what is not really what’s happening. It’s everything that’s around it. And that’s so true in life.
Wayne: Yeah. No, definitely. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the topic in a more sort of, not the theatrical part, but the fact, and you mentioned on your website, somewhere where I read that one in eight couples in the US experiences infertility.
And I was curious about the Canadian, I live in Canada and I was curious [00:17:00] about the Canadian stats. And in fact, in Canada it’s a little higher. It’s at 15%. More or less the same, but a little higher in Canada. And I had two questions.
Meirav: I think in terms of the statistics, there’s a bit of a change because it first depends on how many couples there are.
Going through fertility treatments and also how many couples are dealing with fertility issues or struggles or trying to conceive, so that, that’s like a different gamut of the statistics, in my opinion. Neither is precise because I feel there are a whole bunch of other people who are not even willing to share their experiences, so they’re not even in the statistics.
So I think it’s definitely higher.
Wayne: Yeah. It’s almost, it’s like that for many things that you hear in medicine you always hear that, Oh, but it’s under reported. You’ll hear that. So yeah, partly because of what you were saying earlier, I guess in the case of infertility, [00:18:00] that people are reluctant to talk about it either privately or certainly publicly.
So ergo, it’s something that goes under reported. But the two questions I wanted to ask you is that, what are some of the emotions? Maybe we’ll just go one at a time. What are some of the emotions that go along with infertility, about being in a situation where you and your partner or you on your own are trying to have a child but you can’t. What are the emotions?
Meirav: I think in general, all of the emotions and sometimes all at once because you’re dealing with everything, first of all. For most of us it’s the exact opposite of what you were taught and exposed to all through when you were growing up. I, when I was growing up, like many, we were basically told, Do everything you can to avoid pregnancy because it’s gonna happen so easily.
You’re just basically walking next to the opposite sex and you’re gonna get pregnant. That’s right. And that’s [00:19:00] what’s in movies too. It’s okay, two people, they go on a date. And then they get together, the sheet goes over and next scene, they’re pregnant like, it’s so easy and fast and simple. You basically have to do everything in your power to avoid it because you don’t want that beforehand. So it was basically that. So when you finally are trying and you think it’s gonna happen easily. So you plan, you’re like, Okay, we’re gonna start, on this and this day, because then, a few months later we, but then it doesn’t happen.
So it’s an immediate kind of first of all, a slap in the face. Like you’re immediately thinking, Wait a minute. What? This isn’t what, I was, this isn’t what I know. So there’s that, and then you start, and then you’re in the whole, doubt of are you even able to do it? And then there’s that whole self-bullying and sadness of, Wait, our bodies aren’t working correctly and why is that happening?
And then there’s the questioning of why. And, people are, like my husband and me. Or what’s called having [00:20:00] unexplained infertility, which is the fun kind. It’s like everything’s working, but still for some reason it’s not happening. So that’s even more frustrating. So you have that and then, there’s a lot of, there’s also a lot of, elation and joy during this time because there are times when you feel like it’s gonna happen or you actually are pregnant and then there are miscarriages and then, there’s so many, it’s so up and down and sometimes on the same day, sometimes in the same hour. And then when you are going through any kind of fertility treatment, it becomes this like obsessive bubble because you’re, Okay, I gotta track every day and I gotta do this and I gotta go here and I gotta put this injection in and take that suppository and like all these crazy things that you really, you feel you’re not even a human anymore at some point because you’re like this weird machine. And it’s just really all of the feelings. Yeah.
Wayne: Yeah. You’re a machine and [00:21:00] various people are priming you to produce a legit kind of thing, rather than, Yeah, a couple who have sex and conceive and nine months later they have a child. Yeah.
Meirav: Yeah, and then, and you’re also constantly comparing because you can’t not, because usually everyone in your circle is either pregnant or having their like third, fourth, fifth kid, and you’re like, You know what, what’s going on?
And it just kind of in your face constantly. And it is just really lots of feelings of despair and grief and it’s just, it’s really lots of mind games. It’s really harsh and crazy. And I think, part of this big thing that is horrible that people aren’t talking about it is because these are things that people are dealing with.
Literally now all the listeners that are listening to this right now know somebody who is going through infertility or has gone through it or will go through it, it’s just statistically inevitable. It’s just that way. And if [00:22:00] you are saying, Oh no, I don’t, it’s because those people are just not talking about it and they’re dealing with all of these emotions while they’re trying to be at your birthday party and go to their job and get their cup of coffee and do their laundry.
It’s, they’re doing all this while still trying to be normal. And it’s harsh. It’s really harsh.
Wayne: I can imagine. Yeah. And I can only imagine because I’ve not had the experience. And the other thing I wanted to ask is a more, I’m not sure practical is the right word, but what about once a couple or a person decides that I’m infertile and we are not gonna be able to have a child. What are the common next choices that people make?
Meirav: Usually any type of medical consultation or anything like that usually happens, infertility is typically said, if it’s about a year or more, then we have to look into it. If you’re trying, if you decide to try and then that first month it doesn’t happen, that’s still normal.
If people have been [00:23:00] trying and then for over a year aren’t able to conceive, then it’s typically suggested that they should go seek some medical consultation. This, of course, is speaking about heterosexual couples. Unfortunately, same-sex couples, their only way to deal with procreation is to go through other avenues.
And even then there’s infertility experience through same-sex couples, which is also mind boggling and crazy and it’s just, it’s sad and all that. But yeah, after a year, if a couple is trying to conceive and they can’t, they have to, or they should, go get some medical consultation.
Then you start getting tested. The woman is tested just to make sure her, follicles are going well and eggs are going well and your uterus is functioning and all that. There are tons of tests and hormone levels and there’s so many things to check for.
The man needs to be checked as well for [00:24:00] sperm count. Motility, all that. And then, once if there is some sort of diagnosis, then that could be gone about to be treated. And if there isn’t like unexplained infertility you go about seeking usually, or in my case, you go about seeking all other ways of dealing with it.
Like anything from, I don’t know meditation to belly dancing to, any other way, creams, oils, whatever unconventional stuff. I talk about it in my show in a little rap. But yeah, you go about doing that and in terms of conventional ways of dealing with infertility, there’s something called IUI, which is uterine insemination.
There’s IVF which is in vitro insemination. There’s a lot, there’s a lot that can be done. And I think today, I think every day there are advancements in this, but I think there are things to do, but most importantly, I think it’s just super crucial to keep in mind to self-advocate.
Because even if you’re like, Okay, it’s been a year, [00:25:00] let’s go to a doctor. Which doctor are you gonna go to? And if you go to a doctor, maybe you should get a second opinion. Not all the doctors are the same. Maybe you should not only go to someone who tells you what to do when you do it. Maybe you should also re-examine the way you’re living your life.
Maybe there’s, I don’t know, a lot of other factors that could contribute to that. Maybe it’s, I don’t know, it’s too stressful or you’re dealing with other things or you’re, I don’t know, there’s, alcohol, smoking, there’s all these things that people need to consider before thinking that it’s a dead end.
Because there are lots of things to do, but I think in general, our lives now are conducive to infertility, unfortunately, because we are not living how humans used to live years ago. We are bombarded with so much stuff and a lot of toxins and, so we do have to be more aware.
Wayne: Yeah, we’re doing our best as humans [00:26:00] to destroy us and the planet at the same time.
Meirav: Yeah. Yes, exactly. It’s unfortunate. I think we’ve done so much to make things easier for ourselves that we inevitably made things worse. And it’s unfortunate, but I think, there’s something to it that you can’t manipulate nature.
So it, there we have to also be mindful of that.
Wayne: Just to carry it a little further, you mentioned the various methods, IVF and things like that, and I’ve heard of that and some other ones. I’m not sure how much sort of research you did for this or whether you know this already but what about the couple, let’s say a couple who basically arrive at the fact that nothing is going to work. What do they do, like I’m curious about how many people say then adopt a child, or simply make the call and say, You know what, we’re still a family without a child in it. We’re a [00:27:00] married couple, or we’re a couple together. That’s a family. How do those break down?
Meirav: Thank you so much for bringing that up, because that’s an important aspect that I didn’t even get to cover in my last answer. But yes, in terms of parenthood, there are so many different paths to it, and that’s very important to understand. It is not what we knew. Okay. We wanna become parents. Man, woman, get together, have sex and parenthood.
It’s not like that anymore. First of all, men and women can get together and create a baby, but it’s not necessarily gonna happen that easily in a straight line. There are gonna be ups and downs and circles and meanders and knots and whatnot. But yeah, with that, there’s all the ways of creating a child with that couple. But then there are also other ways that you can become parents. Through surrogacy, which is another woman who’s carrying a couple’s embryo from their sperm and [00:28:00] eggs, but they’re also surrogacies that happen, that have surrogate donated sperm and donated eggs.
There’s also adoption. There’s so many different, paths to parenthood. It’s beautiful. It’s really, it’s mind blowing. It’s unfortunate that it has to include so many ups and downs because all those things I mentioned, it’s also not easy. There’s a lot of time and stress and money involved with all of that.
But I think that it’s important to note that there are so many ways to parenthood and also, like you mentioned, there are couples that choose not to become parents. Whether they’ve gone through that whole thing and said, Okay, enough, we don’t want anymore, or from the get-go, they were married and said, We don’t wanna ever have kids.
We just don’t want that. And that’s perfectly fine and legit and important to state because a lot of people in society think that’s the automated path. You have to grow [00:29:00] up, meet someone, marry them, and procreate and it’s not necessarily that, it’s okay to be single forever. It’s okay to date or never date.
It’s okay to get married. It’s okay to have kids and it’s also okay, not, it’s totally fine. And I think the fact that we became so like expecting of others for this thing, I don’t know. You know what, however you wanna say came to be. Whether it was, I don’t know what it was, religion, society, politics, whatever it was that pressured us to be this way, but it really isn’t and it shouldn’t be.
Wayne: I think that’s a super healthy attitude towards it. I don’t mean, I came off a little patronizing, I didn’t mean it that way, but I really think that’s a really healthy attitude towards it. It’s the way I feel about it too. I managed to get to my age at almost 63, and I actually don’t know whether I’m fertile or not. I don’t have any children and [00:30:00] I feel I have a very full life. You’re quite right.
It’s very possible. Thanks very much for coming on. This has been interesting and informative, and I’m sorry, I’m gonna go back now and look at that clip. Damn my searching techniques.
Meirav: No, it’s all good. I wanna get on that also and make sure that is available for others who are looking.
But yes it’s there. It’s on my and you can find it through other avenues. But yeah, I hope you do take a look at it and I hope that one day you’ll be able to see the show, the whole full show. That will be wonderful to meet you in person.
Wayne: Yeah, no, I’ll, I will try that because now that I’m starting to travel more or travel at all, that could happen.
Meirav: Yeah. That’s wonderful. Yes. If you’re by chance through, October through December in Los Angeles, that’s where I’ll be performing in person. Back again after, in theater, in person performance, after. I don’t know, two and a half years. Wow. Wow. [00:31:00] Yeah. So I’m, yeah, it’s exciting.
But, I’m hopeful people will come out and show up and it’ll be wonderful to have that theater magic happen again.
Wayne: I love theater and yeah, it’s been a gulf with COVID. It just, it’s awful basically. Good for you for having a set of shows, another set of shows coming up.
Good luck with it all and thanks for doing this.
Meirav: Thank you. And thanks so much for this conversation.