Editor and Ooligan Press alum Jackie Krantz discusses the Portland State University book publishing program that has a trade publishing house staffed by its students.
▬
Jackie's Website:
https://jackiekrantz.com/
Ooligan Press Website:
https://www.ooliganpress.com/
Info on Ooligan Press Grad Program:
https://www.pdx.edu/academics/programs/graduate/book-publishing
Editor and Ooligan Press alum Jackie Krantz discusses the Portland State University book publishing program that has a trade publishing house staffed by its students.
▬
Jackie's Website:
https://jackiekrantz.com/
Ooligan Press Website:
https://www.ooliganpress.com/
Info on Ooligan Press Grad Program:
https://www.pdx.edu/academics/programs/graduate/book-publishing
Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the podcast for people who write, edit, read, or listen. Jackie Krantz is returning today to tell us all about her experience at a student run press. This is What is Ooligan Press? Episode two-four-eight of the podcast.
Jennia: Well, glad to have you here again. And I think this is going to be a fun episode, because this isn't really something that even I knew about. And I feel like I have a decent amount of knowledge when it comes to publishing and what is out there. So if you want to tell us first, what even is Ooligan Press?
Jackie: Yeah, thanks for having me back. It's good to be back. So I wanted to come back and talk about Ooligan Press, which is, as you said, a student run press, fully student run. Our publisher, of course, is a faculty member at Portland State University. And Ooligan Press is nested within Portland State University. So you have to be a student there to be a part of the press. And students working at Ooligan are typically part of the book publishing program at Ooligan Press; it's a graduate program. Undergrads can also be a part of the program, but that's a little bit less common because the work is at a graduate level, and it's pretty much like an internship, honestly. That's how we all are told to represent it on our resumes and such, because we're in the book publishing program, which is like our major. It's a master's of science or master of arts. And then the Ooligan Press is like its own kind of separate entity, which you do have to be a part of as part of the book publishing program. It goes hand in hand. But then as part of the program, you can either be, like, a member of the press, which means that you're going to be involved pretty much in every step of the book publishing process. So we publish real trade books, trade fiction and nonfiction. And you can be as—just like, a student of Ooligan Press, can be involved in the acquisitions, the editing, the publishing, like the launch party, the marketing, the publicity. Like pretty much every step. And any step that you wanted to be a part of, you can be a part of. Or if you wanted to take the next step, you can apply to be a manager and have a managerial role. So in Ooligan Press, there are two different types of managers you can be. You can be a project manager or a department lead.
Jennia: Mhm.
Jackie: The project manager's roles are to handle each book and help it through each stage of the process, after acquisitions and to post-publication.
Jennia: Okay.
Jackie: So yeah, and then the department leads deal with each section of the book, but for a specific stage of it. So, for example, I was a project manager for a book called A Family, Maybe, it's publishing in February. So I helped the book through each of those beginning stages before I graduated, of course. And then the department leads are like, editorial. So when it was in the editorial stage, I would work with the editorial department lead, and then when it's in the marketing stage at the beginning, then I work with the marketing department lead, etc., cetera.
Jennia: That's a really thorough education, and I like that you guys get to have a little bit of each part, because it's sort of like when we talk about story and how you can't separate one facet from another, that they're all interconnected. And it's really the same way with publishing, that they are all interconnected, and you need to bring them together to have that whole—that finished product. So you're getting those little glimpses of each part, and what you even need to do is just such a wonderful thing that they're providing.
Jackie: Definitely, yeah. It gives you a holistic view of the publishing process, which is something that—because, of course, you don't have to necessarily get a master's degree or even a bachelor's degree to be in publishing, but it definitely helps. And being in this program has given me a perspective that I would never have had if I had never joined it. And it also helps you foster connections with budding publishing professionals, as well as professionals that have been in the field.
Jennia: What are some of the ways that your perspectives did change? Or maybe what were some ideas you had going in that you realized were not maybe correct, or you needed to adapt in some way after you went through the program?
Jackie: Mhm. I joined the program with zero prior publishing experience because I got my bachelor's degree in biotechnology. And then I decided, like, oh, actually, I don't want to work in the sciences maybe as directly as I thought. So I switched gears to book publishing as my master's degree. And so I had zero preconceived notions about what publishing was. I just knew I wanted to be an editor.
Jennia: Mhm.
Jackie: And I didn't even know the specific types of editing when I went in, like, developmental, copy editing. I had done a little bit of research, but it wasn't fully clear to me. And so when I went in and I put myself like, you can kind of focus your classes depending on whichever field you want to be a part of specifically. So I focused my classes for editing. So I took an intro to editing, a developmental editing, a copy editing class. And that's how I kind of learned what those differences were and which one I preferred. And I realized that I like all the editing styles and types, but I prefer copy editing. That's kind of like my niche. And it's interesting, a lot of my peers and other graduates of the program who come back to talk to us after they've positioned in the field, say that, oh yeah, editing is kind of the one that everyone goes into wanting, right? But then once you get into Ooligan since you get such a holistic education and you get a peek into each department of the whole publishing process, a lot of people change their minds and like, oh, okay, actually I have a knack for marketing. I want to be a part of that. And that's really a helpful part of the program, is to kind of dip your toes in without fully committing to one so that you can really see what you like, uh, for a career.
Jennia: Yeah, because as I'm sure you saw, the application of what you've learned can often be so different from the actual learning itself and what you assume it will be like or what you envision it being like at the end of the day.
Jackie: Mhm, 100%. It's like when you think of editing, you're not going to be editing 100% of the time. There's so much more that goes into editing, like, fostering the author relations, or working with your team, or basic administrative duties, stuff like that. So that's really useful to kind of get a perspective on as well.
Jennia: Besides editing, what are some of the other tracks? Or do you have a list of the different tracks they had within the program?
Jackie: The specialization opportunities are for editing, design, marketing, or digital. So design includes not only the cover of the book, but also the interior of the book as well. And then marketing, of course, is marketing. And then digital for us means running the website and controlling the audiobook and the ebook. And being in charge of all that as well.
Jennia: Yeah, I mean, that really does seem to sum up most of the tasks. So even though you were in the editing track, because you had this experience with Ooligan Press, how confident, as a result do you feel in each of these areas?
Jackie: I feel pretty confident I could reasonably do pretty much any of the roles that are involved in a publishing capacity, I would say. Like right now as a freelancer, I have like a marketing role as well as an editing role. So while editing is kind of like what I'm going towards ultimately in my career, I have the experience and know-how to be able to not only do all of the other jobs but work with those other professionals in a capacity where I understand what type of work they're doing, if that makes sense.
Jennia: I can see that being beneficial too. Even just knowing the language to use and what it is that the author should be looking for when they get to that step and being able to articulate that in a way that makes sense to them.
Jackie: 100%
Jennia: Yeah, without being very jargon heavy.
Jackie: Yes. Or even if we wanted to be jargon heavy, like, I would understand what they mean, you know. Like when I'm talking about SEO keywords, I'm like, yeah, I got you.
Jennia: Exactly, yeah. And then interpret it for them in layman's terms.
Jackie: Mhm, exactly. Yeah, as a project manager for Ooligan Press, I dipped my toes into each of the spheres, uh, in a way that if you're department lead, that you don't really get, because I'm working with all of the department leads, and so across the whole span of the book's life. So, yeah, that also gives me the kind of a little bit of extra experience.
Jennia: Is that typical for someone to be able to go through all the different roles when they're going through Ooligan Press or do they tend to keep someone in one position?
Jackie: Yeah, if you're going to be a member of Ooligan Press without taking a managerial role, then you can participate in what we call "call outs." So each department lead or project manager will send out a call out to all of Ooligan Press and be like, I have a light copy editing task that you can do, who wants to participate?" type of thing. And each department will send those out. So you do still get experience in all of the departments, in all of the spheres. But it's based off of what the departments are reaching out for, if that makes sense. But then, as a project manager, you're identifying what is needed, kind of handling whatever you can on your own or within your project team, and then anything that basically is left over that you need help with, then you'll do a call out. Although call outs are typically for department leads only, not really project managers. So yeah, you don't have to be a manager in Ooligan Press in order to get the full holistic experience. And it definitely is a lot of work. Like, if you're going to be a manager, you're putting in a lot more time and energy, but it will give you kind of like that extra oomph of experience for sure.
Jennia: So about how many hours would you say you put in as a manager versus not a manager?
Jackie: That's, yeah, it varies. It varies depending on what stage your book is in as a project manager. I mean, it's an internship, so it's pretty much like a part time job at times. I wouldn't say that I'd ever put in more than, like, 20 hours a week. That seems too much. But I would say that a typical call out will take anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours, and you have to do ten call outs—if you're a member of the press, you have to do ten call outs each term. So that would be like one per week. So you're putting in a few hours max per week, other than the time that you have to be in class.
Jennia: That's not bad.
Jackie: Yeah, but then as a project manager, you don't need to participate in call outs, but you're running your whole department or your whole project team, so it's a little bit more, I would say, maybe. Including the project team meetings and stuff, I would say, like five to 10 hours a week on average. And of course, that varies, just like any kind of freelance role does, depending on the level of work that's needed that week.
Jennia: Totally makes sense. How many people on average were on a team, or did that also vary by the sphere that they're in?
Jackie: So the sizes of teams varies depending on how many people enroll and are accepted in Ooligan Press. My project team, and there are between four and five, I think, it's in flux right now, how many books are going at once. But my team had four to five other students besides me for the whole time that I was in—the program is a two-year program, and you're a project manager for one year. So during my one year period, students would come in and out, and it was always between, like four and five other people on my team.
Jennia: Okay.
Jackie: And that's pretty much how it was for all of the other project teams as well.
Jennia: Huh. About how many books do you think that they publish on average in a year? And does that vary from year to year, depending on any factors or any factors that you know of?
Jackie: Yeah, I think we aim for four to five. We're always trying to publish a nonfiction, a young adult, an adult fiction, and then we have, like, a deal with one of the libraries around here, but I don't think that's happening right now. It's a lot of things in flux, and a lot of things were affected by COVID and this, this, and that. But we're working on a comic right now, that's a new thing for us. And I say we—I'm graduated, but once an Oolie always an Oolie. The students are called Oolies.
Jennia: Yeah, just that you even still say we. And you can tell that it was a positive experience for you, and that there's still that attachment, which is not always the experience that people have after some sort of internship at a small press. So that alone is just really refreshing to see.
Jackie: Yeah, yeah, we're all kind of one big family—that's really fostered in Ooligan I would say. Everyone's kind of helping each other out and there for each other. And it's a really understanding environment that really fosters growth. It's trying to not so much put a focus on, "We got to get the work done, pedal to the metal, we got to grind. And it doesn't matter, like anything personal that's happening in your life, we got to get this work done" type of thing. It's a very fostering environment, I would say. A really good place to learn the beginnings and the basics of the field.
Jennia: That's just so nice to hear. Do you know if there are any other student run presses in the country? Or are they special in that they might be the only one or one of only a few?
Jackie: I know there are other book publishing programs in the country, but as far as I know, Ooligan Press is the only student run trade press in the country, which is why I chose the program, because I wanted that experience.
Jennia: Yeah, that makes sense, because that experience alone is just going to tell you so much about actually working in the industry. That just seems like such a huge advantage to them to have that.
Jackie: Mhm. And Portland, Oregon is a really big book hub as well. So you're kind of in an epicenter for publishing.
Jennia: You guys ever take field trips to Powell's?
Jackie: Oh, yeah, definitely. Not necessarily field trips, but pretty much anything doing in relation to the program. I had my book launch at Powell's, actually. I was a project manager—before A Family, Maybe, I was a project manager for Where We Call Home, which is a nonfiction collection of essays about flora and fauna in the Pacific Northwest. And the author is a local Portland author. Powell's likes to have book launches for local authors and—sorry not book launches, but, like, book events. And so our event was a book launch. And so we were able to host her there, and it was a roaring success, full house type of thing. So it was a really neat thing to be a part of.
Jennia: Yeah, that's really cool. What all went into planning that launch for her, or what steps did you have to take, or what were you involved in?
Jackie: As a project manager, you're a liaison between the author and the press, the publisher, pretty much anyone who needs to talk to the author. But then also our authors are encouraged to do a lot of, especially publicity stuff, themselves. And so the author actually, herself reached out to Powell's and was like, can I have an event here? And he was like, yeah, I'm down. Let's do it. And so then she told me, and then that's where I'm like, okay, Powell's, what do you need from us? Like, so we got them a poster. We figured out the dates and everything together, and Powell's kind of took it into their own hands, which was really nice. I just had to kind of be the person, like, what do you need? And, of course, the whole press is working together. This is a collaborative effort. So our operations department is making the bookmarks, and then I pick up the bookmarks and take them to Powell's the day of the event. Yeah, it was really cool. And then, for some of our book launches, the project manager will stand up and say some words. But then for this book launch, we organized a—an interviewer, another author, who was going to ask Josephine questions, like a speaker event type of thing. So I helped organize that. And then we also had an illustrator for our book to do the cover, which is atypical. Typically, we have students design the cover. Oh, that's like a whole nother thing that I could talk about. But, so we had an illustrator for the cover and we also had him do little illustrations at the beginning of each chapter. And so he was a part of the launch party author talk as well. So we had the interviewer, and then the author, and the illustrator were all sitting up, and they had, like, a panel type of thing. And it was really cool. It was so funny. I could go on and on about that event, but it was a success, is the bottom line.
Jennia: When you're helping the authors with their own publicity or letting them know they need to be responsible for some of it, do you ever give them any tips or tricks? Do you give them advice on what to do, or do you just let them handle that on their own?
Jackie: Yeah, we have a packet that we've made that—I didn't make people before me made with the publisher, and the marketer, and the publicity manager's information—and it's a whole packet that we send to the authors, and they're like, here's steps that you can take to market your book to make your social media kind of up to par. Just a bunch of tips and tricks that we send them. And some authors are more involved than others. Yeah, we always encourage all of our authors, like, this is going to work best if you will take matters into your own hands, in a way.
Jennia: Right. And how do you find—
Jackie: And we'll help of course, in any way that we can.
Jennia: Which is also, I'm sure, very appreciated.
Jackie: Yes, yes, definitely.
Jennia: So how do they find their authors? Or how do the authors find them?
Jackie: So we call out to anyone who's trying to submit a book who's from the Pacific Northwest, or, like, their book is about the Pacific Northwest, because that's kind of what we focus on. So our mission statement is books from the Pacific Northwest, about the Pacific Northwest, or of interest to the Pacific Northwest. So if your manuscript falls under any of those categories, then you can submit to Submitable, go to Ooligan Press's website, and then we have submissions through Submitable that we'll accept all year round. Some of—sometimes we'll scout authors. That happens less often.
Jennia: Oh that's good to know. And I'm sure that there are going to be at least some people that think, oo, and then write it down.
Jackie: Yeah, definitely. Ooligan Press, it's great. You do have to keep in mind that you are working with students. It's funny because I know we get submissions where in the author letter, they'll say, yeah, my manuscript is ready to publish. And it's like, well, if it's ready to publish, we, as students can't work on it. If it's already all edited, all formatted, it's all good—we need a manuscript that we can work with, type of thing.
Jennia: That's good to know too. Yeah, but I'm sure that's probably in the submission guidelines.
Jackie: Yeah, 100%. And then people still don't listen to them.
Jennia: Well, that's kind of par for the course with anything where they're a requirement.
Jackie: Yeah.
Jennia: Well, was there anything besides editing, though, that you were really surprised at enjoying, or maybe not enjoying so much or something that might have even been harder than you thought it would be?
Jackie: I definitely found that I enjoy social media a little bit more. Like, that's a big part, of course, of marketing and publicizing a book. And I was a big part of the social media campaign for Where We Call Home, and it has a lot of design aspects. And I also learned about Canva, which is a really cool tool. And so I had fun helping my team design, and also designing myself, posts on our social media to help publicize Where We Call Home. And that was actually really fun for me. I felt like I have a knack for it, especially for Instagram. It's like, because there's so many social media platforms. But I'm particularly fond of Instagram.
Jennia: Me too.
Jackie: I also found—like the whole experience did cement the idea that I do want to be an editor, as I mentioned earlier, because I wasn't as interested in the marketing aspect or the digital audiobooks aspect. Yeah, it just affirmed that editing is kind of where I want to be. I feel like I'm the best at that and I find it the most enjoyable. And working with authors is also really fun, although I know as a copy editor, you don't really get as much of that sometimes, which is why developmental editing would be a really cool role for me as well in the future.
Jennia: Well said. Did you ever know other people, though, where maybe they went in with one idea of what they were going to be focused on and then they ended up switching after these experiences?
Jackie: Actually, that is not determined, but suggested by the roles that my people in my cohort got as managers. Like, there was my friend that was the operations manager, so kind of like the publisher's assistant type of person. And she really found a knack for working with metadata is kind of her thing.
Jennia: Interesting!
Jackie: Yeah, as far as I know, she wasn't into that before she came to the program. So it gets you just experience that you wouldn't necessarily have even thought of. And then when you apply for the manager roles, you apply for your top three. But then sometimes, depending on what other people apply for and what other people's applications look like, then maybe you don't get your top three, maybe you get another one, or maybe you get like your third choice type of thing. And so I'm not sure where my friends ranked operations or digital or audiobooks, but they got put into these positions, which they then take over. And honestly, the publisher is the one who puts us in those positions, and she kind of has a knack for seeing what people are going to be good at.
Jennia: Hmm.
Jennia: And so then you get a lot of experience that you maybe wouldn't have. And then my friend who was the operations manager, I know that she really ran with it. And you have to do a research paper at the end of your time. So she ran with metadata for her research paper, and just got a lot of experience with that. I don't know where she's at now, but I wouldn't, be surprised if she ended up doing something relating to metadata just because she got that experience that she wouldn't have otherwise.
Jennia: Are there ever times where one of the professors might guide someone to a different direction? Like, maybe you are just really keen on doing this one thing, and whoever's in that supervisory role says, you might be better suited for this?
Jackie: If that happened directly, I never heard about it. But, yes, with assigning managerial roles, that's definitely something that we all kind of think, like, hmm does our—our publisher is a faculty member and she's the one who assigns the roles. And if I wanted to be the editorial manager, but then I get put in a project manager role, it's like, what is she seeing in me that she thinks that I could succeed? Or I know she also places people sometimes in roles that they have less experience in so that they can kind of build up their CV, get more of, like, a well-rounded experience.
Jennia: So what happens when you have something in a manuscript or when you're working with a manuscript and the student is stuck? How many people on the faculty do you have to go to? Or how easy is that to even do?
Jackie: I don't know. That's such a broad question. It's like when a student is stuck, I'm thinking for editorial, specifically, like, if a student has an editorial call out that they're working on, and they're like, I don't know how to make this edit, or, I know an edit should be made here, but I don't know exactly what to do. In that case, the publisher is as hands off as she can be. She is like the person that we go to as a last resort. Other than that, we defer to the managers.
Jennia: Okay.
Jackie: So if an editor is working and doesn't know how to make an edit, then she'll query the managing editor as an edit and be like, "For managing editor, what should I do here?" type of thing. And then the managing editor compiles all the edits that she receives from the students. Also, there's never any—ever just one student working on editing a part of a manuscript. It's always at least two. So the managing editor then compiles them and will see the note from that student and then be able to kind of answer that question. That's just one example, but it kind of works like that across all of the departments.
Jennia: Man, it's like there's like this emphasis on camaraderie and working together, and it seriously just thrills me to even hear about it, because, again, you hear horror stories all the time about working with a publisher or I had to work 20 hours in a day to meet my deadline. Everything you're saying is the exact opposite of that, which is just so pleasant.
Jackie: Yeah, it was definitely a great experience. I would highly recommend it for any budding publishing professional who wants to get experience in the field and be a part of a really nice... family is a cheesy word to use, and I know people don't like to use it, but, like, the—
Jennia: I would just use it anyways. People do found families, we'll make it a trope.
Jackie: Perfect. Love it.
Jennia: Yes. If you too crave found family and publishing—
Jackie: Join Ooligan Press!
Jennia: There we go. See? We even made a tagline for them. Perfect.
Jackie: Perfect. I will be taking commissions now.
Jennia: Yes. Put that on a bumper sticker. Start selling it. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Maybe one last comment about Ooligan Press and what you learned from it, or maybe even where people can find you next? Or these books that you guys made?
Jackie: Yeah. If you're in the Portland, Oregon area, keep an eye on our website and also sign up for our email list. And we're going to have a book launch soon for A Family, Maybe, that's the book that I started, and then when I graduated, I passed it on to the next project manager. It's a memoir about a gay couple seeking to adopt their foster children in the early 2000s. So if you're into that type of thing, or also just the launch party is going to be really fun, so keep, an eye on that. I don't know exactly where it's going to be yet, but that's going to be on our website, through our email list, and probably on our socials too. You can find us on, I know, Instagram, and I don't know if we're still on Twitter, but we were. And then Facebook, I want to say... There's a social media manager that handles all that. But yeah, you can find us in a bunch of places. And then ooliganpress.com is our website.
Jennia: Perfect. Well, that's exciting. And I wish you all the best for a very successful launch party.
Jackie: Thank you!
Jennia: Welcome!
Jackie: And thanks for having me.
Jennia: Of course, it's always fun having you.
Jennia: And that's all for today. Thank you for listening. And please check out the show notes for more information. Next, author, editor, and map maker Ellis Prybylski will be here to talk about the Neurodivergent Publishing Conference. Please join me then. Thank you!