257. How Sharing Your Story Can Boost Your Personal and Professional Goals

Content warning: Mentions of suicide

Doctor of education and professor Keith McNally discusses the impact of sharing your story on personal and professional goals, his book Walking the Path: A Leader's Journey, and how to start bringing a new perspective to life.
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Find Keith on LinkedIn:
Keith J. McNally - Digital Vision LLC | LinkedIn

Get Walking the Path: A Leader's Journey:
Walking the Path: A Leader's Journey: McNally, Keith: 9781387458240: Amazon.com: Books

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the podcast for people who write, edit, read, or listen. Have you ever wondered how sharing your personal stories can add clarity to your personal and professional goals? Well, educator, creator, and speaker Dr. Keith McNally is here to explain this concept and its importance.

Jennia: Thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Keith: I'm going to get this right, Jennia it is a pleasure to be here! And so I've been practicing your name in my head. To be quite honest, I talk to people all the time on my shows, and so I do make it a very clear and intentional point. And I've only screwed up one person's name. And so, other than that...

Jennia: Oh,  good job!

Jennia: Well, if you want to tell us a little bit, not just about yourself, but also how you came to understand the importance of sharing personal stories.

Dr. Keith: Well, I'm a doctor, so, Doctor of Education, and so I graduated with my doctoral degree from the University of Phoenix in 2010. I've been teaching in the college classroom by trade. I am a college professor in the world of IT, so information technology. And so I've been helping, typically, military personnel either improve their skills or those transitioning out of the service, getting a job in IT within one to two years. So whether it's in the college classroom or as an apprenticeship or whatever that. looks like, my focus has been to upskill those people who are looking to make a career transition from whatever they were doing. And I've taken easily people who have not ever touched a computer well, you know, in the way that we would want to, from cooks to mechanics to pilots to whatever. Even a Navy Seal. I have trained a Navy Seal—

Jennia: Oh, nice.

Dr. Keith: —how to build infrastructure. And so it's been really cool. And so that's been fantastic. But to kind of clarify or get around to your question, really, the focus has been since COVID. And since COVID, people's stories have been top of our focal point because everybody's been making either shifts, pivots, transitions, changes in their life, typically out of necessity. And so that's been a real focal point for me because I went through that same transformation as well.

Jennia: Oh yeah, I can see that. So do you think that it was just seeing the rewards that came from that personal transformation that led you to seeing how it could benefit other people?

Dr. Keith: I did a couple of things from COVID and the quarantine. And so we go back a couple of years from the time of this recording, and I always say it's a flip side of a coin. And so on one side of the coin people incurred a lot of loss. And so whether that be family members, friends, money, homes, the security that really comes with life. And so COVID took some of that away from us, and—

Jennia: Right.

Dr. Keith: —it really hurt—it hurt us. It hurt us physically, it hurt us emotionally, to some, it hurt them spiritually. And whatever space that was, they incurred loss. So there was regrets, grief, trauma, and all of those things. On the other side of the coin for those who didn't really incur loss, but then with the quarantine, when they got up every morning, a lot of people were not liking who they saw in the mirror. And because of that, they wanted to make some alignment changes, like they had achieved a lot in life, and many people have, and that's really good, we all want to achieve stuff. But what they were finding is everything that they've achieved, you know, all the material stuff?

Jennia: Right.

Dr. Keith: Was not that aligning with who they wanted to be or thought they were in terms of character, person, values, and whatnot. And so whatever side of the coin you found yourself on, you wanted to change your own narrative. You wanted to change the narrative of your life because that became really, really important.

Jennia: Have you ever seen people who are struggling to pinpoint what these achievements are that they want in life, or being able to figure out which direction they want their narrative to go? Maybe, for instance, they know they want to change, but they can't articulate exactly what they want that change to be.

Dr. Keith: So I wrote a book. (both laugh)

Dr. Keith: I did write a book! And so if I can kind of give it a shout out.

Jennia: Of course!

Dr. Keith: It's called Walking the Path—Walking the Path: A Leader's Journey. And that book was kind of my metaphorical journey that I took. Now it's only a piece of the bigger picture. What we were finding, or at least what I was finding in all the conversations that I started to have, you know, 2020, 2021, was, and I don't want to use the cliche now, "stuck." But they were finding themselves in a space that was uncomfortable, either because of their own expectations or the expectations of others. And so the conversations that I was having was people wanted to kind of remove themselves in some way, shape, or form from what's expected. And so my book, Walking the Path: A Leader's Journey, was about a young man. So I wrote a narrative within context of what it means to become a leader. Now, this isn't an academic book by any means. It's not a C Suite leadership book by any means. It's really designed for the individual to say, "I could see myself in this position but I don't know what to do about it."

Jennia: Ah, got it.

Dr. Keith: For John it was, he was living under the expectation of his family. So the story is, you know, this community lives enclosed with a mountain range and he was expected to take over his family's farm, you know, the standard cliche story. But in order to not do that, to really find out who he was, he had to cross the mountain. And so with his mentor's guidance he became vulnerable allowed himself to make his intentional changes, found a team of people—his friends, his colleagues who really trusted him and he in them.

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: And they all agreed that because of their own different circumstances—they all agreed to take on the challenge because nobody's ever done it before, nobody's ever left the community, nobody's ever crossed over the mountain, nobody's ever challenged themselves—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —to do something difference. This small group of people, young people, 17/18 years old took on that challenge. And so from a very real perspective or even a very metaphorical perspective, everybody who I was talking to saw that, you know, that mountain, that obstacle in their world.

Jennia: Right.

Dr. Keith: And they knew they had to find a way through it, over it, around it but the journey was inside.

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: They had to make changes.

Jennia: Yeah, I can definitely see that and I can see it being so relatable to a lot of people too just because so often we do have at least that feeling of being like discontent is there and it's present. And we recognize it's there, but we might not know how to get around it or how to change in some way that it will maybe not even just completely go away but at least be lessened until we reach the next step where we then identify what we want after that. So I can see that being something that people really grasp onto

Dr. Keith: And they did. And so bringing that back into what I was doing personally, I was starting to reach out to people and the only people I really knew, and that's only by profile and resume (both laugh)—those on LinkedIn. And so my journey was I wanted to start connecting with people and I simply started tapping on people's virtual doors. "Hey, would you like to have a conversation? Now not everybody said "Yeah" upfront. But the more and more people were saying, "Yeah." And so those conversations, some of them were heart wrenching because people had lost—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —stuff and family, and people were crying on the Zoom call to a perfect stranger, which was me. And so what I decided to do was take those conversations and share them and ask people, ask permission, you know, "Can we share this conversation? Can we share your story? Can we share your narrative? Would you want to do that?" And so again, it started with people that I knew, but then it grew. So they started saying, "You really need to talk to Dr. Keith. You really need to share your story on the Question Guy podcast, and that was the original podcast. And more and more people were doing that. And because they were sharing their story, it gave me confidence to share my story. And my story is that, you know, I've attempted suicide twice in the past, well now eleven years, because as of last year, it was ten. And so having to deal with that grief, trauma, and those circumstances in my life—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —helped me, now help others. And so it's all those narratives, it's all of those stories, it's all of those conversations that people can kind of jump into and say, "Let's reconnect in a very real, meaningful, and intentional way. And when we do that, that's when real change happens.

Jennia: That's beautiful. Did you find that some people had a hard time being vulnerable? Like, was this maybe even new to them?

Dr. Keith: Yes. And so the direct answer is yes. And like I said, even myself, it wasn't necessarily something that I jumped into or talked about, but it was listening to what people had to say and validating their experience. So it's their experiences in their life and saying, you know, "That had to have been tough," or "That had to have been scary," or "I can only imagine myself in that situation." And so with every little conversation, with every next conversation, my ability to create a space that allowed somebody to feel comfortable, even though it's a virtual space—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —was getting better. So whether innately, it's who I am, or by structure, or design, or by intent, I create this space where people feel comfortable and we can both become vulnerable. Because talking about suicide isn't easy. Talking about trauma isn't easy. Talking about the bad stuff in life isn't always easy. And sometimes it's not even comfortable. You know, we talk about being easy. People don't like to talk about, you know, what went wrong or the responsibilities they didn't meet up to or things that they failed at. But it's those pieces in life that make our character, that create our character, that restructure our character. And it's those things that once you figure it out, then you start gaining confidence, then you start saying, "Yeah, you know, that was me, but this is me now. This is what I did, but this is what I can do now." And so people were jumping on those conversations more and more. So I'm still having them do it. I have five different conversations. You know, people's personal story, people's professional story, social impact, suicide, and conversations. Those people who want to have a deeper, meaningful relationship, at least with me. (both laugh)

Jennia: Well, it sounds like it's working well and that people are flocking to you because you do seem to be having a lot of people gravitate toward you for those reasons and to chat with you.

Dr. Keith: Yeah, it's really good. And so, people—we're changing the world. It seems like a big ambition, but at the same time, I think every conversation, we do change. And so even in this conversation, you know, I'm going to be impacted. I'm going to move forward with something because you allowed me to sit here with the microphone and share thoughts and ideas, and so it's going to change me at the very least.

Jennia: Wow... Well, moving back into goals and then how this vulnerability and sharing leads to adding that clarity: What are some of the changes that you've seen in people as a result or that they've shared with you?

Dr. Keith: When people have shared their stories, and I have had some people who, they—there's some of us who shouldn't be alive. And I don't say that, you know, rather flippantly, because some of us have been impacted by COVID, some of us have been impacted by serious medical conditions, some people have attempted suicide. I've also survived a heart attack. But when we come face to face with those things that challenge us the most, and they're saying to themselves, and I said it to myself, "There's more to life than this. Whatever this is, it doesn't really matter. There's more to life than this," then in their head, it clicks. They understand three things about themselves. They have value, they're important, and they have a purpose. And so when those three things click inside your brain, you can do anything, because then you're driven. You're either driven to become a better version of yourself and then, another cliche, or what they've also done is, I take the journey forward—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —and I've become successful. Whatever that end goal is, or even if it's the journey itself, people are going to see that and they're going to want to be a part of that journey as well. And so a lot of people I have talked to have become coaches, speakers, or whatever, authors, so that they can share their value with their space. And so whatever, you know, niche group or market, whatever that looks, like their brand.

Jennia: Yeah.

Dr. Keith: They could kind of add value to people's lives because everybody on the planet right now hurts in some way. And so it's everybody helping somebody else, it's what's going to change the world.

Jennia: Yeah. I can really see how adding confidence to someone—or someone's confidence improving, or again, realizing, no, I do have value, how that would lead to that. Just because, and this is just my opinion, I think a lot of those feelings are what weigh us down and make us feel like we're not capable of doing what it is we really want to do, or even looking outside of whatever these expectations are that are put upon us versus the ones that are internal to who we are and what we secretly desire. Or maybe not so secretly desire, but just feel like maybe we don't even have the right to pursue it.

Dr. Keith: Yeah. When you look at other people's expectations, that kind of blinds us to our potential. And so even, you know, "Do I have the right to pursue that?" And there's another whole conversation altogether. It's called permission. And so I've had those conversations before too, because sometimes it's true. You know, we don't give ourselves to step forward, to make change and to do things differently, because it's scary sometimes, the expectation of others, even if it's just your mom, or dad, or brother, or sister, or somebody that, you know, they're expecting you to behave some way. And you wanted—so tired of what's going on, because, you know, if you do the same thing tomorrow, guess what's going to happen tomorrow? Same results as today. So you got to do something differently. Even if it's just is saying, "I'm going to have something different for lunch, or "I'm going to have something different for.." or "I'm going to go for a walk today," or I'm going to talk to this friend I haven't talked to in..." whatever. If you do something different, something small, but something different, it's the start of change.

Jennia: Yeah... Not to make this too sciency, but I've been reading a lot about neural pathways and the plasticity of our brain lately, and this all lines up so neatly with that. Where it is a lot of those small changes that we are creating a new neural pathway, and that leads to that, you know, on a biological, anatomical level, that we are changing and we're allowing ourselves to live a different way. And that path then becomes natural instead of the old path, where we thought whatever it was we thought about ourselves, or whatever it was we thought about what we were or were not capable of, and what our life should be like.

Dr. Keith: So true. So true. But it has to become habit. And so it's not just you know, one day I'll just do something, and then—for me, I'll just give a real quick example. I'm on a mission to eradicate, you know, the impact of suicide, at the very least across the globe. And so I have a very regimented day. So my day starts early. I have—usually do a twelve-mile hike with a 30 pound pack. I have very much special dietary intakes. Every once in a while, I eat chocolate. (laughs). My goal is to hike the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine. So if any one of your listeners are thinking, "What's he trying to accomplish?" is that part of my mission is to show that even somebody who has attempted suicide twice and survived a heart attack, I know that I am of value. I know that I am important. And I know that I have a purpose. And so my purpose right now is to have conversations to help people recognize those three things about themselves but also show that they could do things that they never thought they could. And for me, that's hiking the Appalachian Trail all the way through.

Jennia: Aw, that sounds fun! Are you documenting this as you go along and sharing it?

Dr. Keith: I'm writing my own journal (laughs), so my training journal and whatnot. But right now, my conversations are focused on sharing other people's narratives and helping people understand their purpose. But when I get on the trail... uh, that's a different story altogether. That's a different narrative. (both laugh). Totally different narrative.

Jennia: Well that will be neat to see... Yeah, so on your website, you talk a little bit about the stigma that we still have in our society about even sharing some of these personal stories. I wonder if you can expand on that and why you think that, why it is still so common?

Dr. Keith: I don't know the answer to that question, to be quite honest. What I've figured out, however, is that for a long time, mental health, mental illness, mental wellness, tend to be lumped in the same category. Mental health is our category. Something's wrong with our brain. That's been the medical model for years, at least here in America. Maybe not so much across the globe, but at least here in America, we subscribe to the medical model. What I'm finding now, in 2024, at the time of this recording, is that there is a broader landscape of understanding that we've only begun to tap into.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jennia: Not everybody is mentally ill. Now, there are people who are mentally ill. There is something structurally wrong with their brain. Their neural pathways don't work correctly. And I get that. That's not going to be, however, the scope for everybody. I am not mentally ill. I don't have a diagnosis. I don't have a depressive diagnosis. I don't have recurring wanting to hurt myself ideations. I had circumstances in my life that said,  "You know, this really sucks and I want to get out," thus the two attempts. I say all that to say is that when we need to have those conversations, becoming vulnerable and sharing story is still taboo, especially for men.

Jennia: Oh, yeah. That's true.

Dr. Keith: And I'm 54. As of the time of this recording, I'm 54, and I'm a white male at that. So what's the expectation for me to be successful, to have climbed the corporate ladder, to have multiple houses and cars and all those—lots of money in the bank and all those kind of really cool things. But there's still emptiness inside. And if there's emptiness inside, we don't recognize our value and importance and our purpose.

Jennia: Yeah.

Dr. Keith: So to change that, I no longer refer to mental health as mental health. We should be looking at what does it mean to be well? What does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to be complete and whole? I mean W-H-O-L-E, not holistic. But that's another idea altogether. What does it mean to be human? It means that we could have emotions. It means that we could have opinions. It means that we could share those thoughts and ideas with other people if we could kind of tap into what it really means to be human, including our spirituality. And that means different things to different people. It's still part of who we are, right? It's part of our nature. And some people say story is also part of our DNA. I've had those conversations as well. Story. Narrative.

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: Because if you look at all the textual elements, the sacred text, you know, whether it be the Bible or whatever, you know, book you kind of subscribe to, it's still a narrative. It's somebody's narrative. So we can kind of create our own narrative. And I think you inferred to this earlier. We could start creating our own narrative—

Jennia: Mhm.

Dr. Keith: —by changing our habits, by changing our thoughts, putting things into practice and picking up a pen (laughs good naturedly) and writing things down in a journal and creating our own story. If we can do that, we could change our lives.

Jennia: Aw, that's wonderful! I love—I just love it. Because I think it is so easy for us to feel like we lack agency in our own lives and that this circumstance is out of my control. I'll disappoint this person. This person will be mad at me if I pursue this path instead. And so then we do, just to use wording that you used earlier, even though you said it was a cliche, we stay stuck. And that's not going to lead us to pursuing the goals that really matter to us.

Dr. Keith: So true. So true. And if I could say anything to your audience—

Jennia: Yes!

Dr. Keith: —I give permission (laughs good naturedly). Doctor K, Doctor Keith is giving you permission to do something different today. Whatever that is. Write down your thoughts. Share a conversation with somebody. Drive a different route to work, if that's what you got to do. Do something different. Challenge yourself. Step outside your comfort zone. Now, I know out there someone's gonna say, "If I do that, I'm gonna be late for work." And so all these negative thoughts come around.

Jennia: Oh.

Dr. Keith: Yeah. There's a lot of power in positivity. That can't be—I don't know if the phrase is overstated or understated—it can't be said enough. There's lots of power and positivity. Now, it's not going to solve every problem...

Jennia: Right.

Dr. Keith: But it's going to give you the confidence to do something different and do something differently. So I give permission.

Jennia: Well, thank you. And thank you again for being here. This was fun. I mean, I know it sounds weird to say this was fun because we were talking about vulnerability and some heavier topics, but it's just so inspirational and it's hopeful. You know, you come away from this thinking, "I can do this. I can do these different things and maybe see where it takes me." So thank you again.

Dr. Keith: Thank you so much. I appreciated this.

Jennia: And that's all for today. Thank you for listening, and please check out the show notes for more information. And then please join me next week when my friend and editor, Dayna Reidenouer and I will be returning for another episode of Editing Essentials. We'll be talking about what book coaching is, and when to hire one. Thank you.