281. Reasons to Join a Writing Group with Tiffany Aurora

Author Tiffany Aurora discusses the differences between a writing group and a critique group, the benefits of a writing group, and what you should do to find one.
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Visit Tiffany's website:
https://tiffanyaurora.com/

Check out her podcasts!
Entrepreneurs & Artists:
https://entrepreneursandartists.podbean.com/

Survivors of Johanum:
https://survivorsofjohanum.podbean.com/

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the podcast that takes a whole person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. Have you ever thought of joining an in-person writing group, but weren't sure how to find one, or even exactly what you could expect from one or what would happen there? Author Tiffany Aurora, who is the founder of one such group in the Baltimore area, is here to answer those questions. This is "Reasons to Join a Writing Group."

Jennia: First, thank you so much for being here!

Tiffany Aurora: Absolutely! Thank you for the invite, Jennia. I'm happy to be here!

Jennia: Yeah! Before we jump into the benefits of joining a writing group, I'd love to hear that how you formed yours and even the obstacles that you might have encountered while doing so.

Tiffany Aurora: Sure. So I ended up starting a writing group, not because I wanted to start a writing group, but because I went looking for something that I needed and I couldn't find it. And I had been a part of several writing groups in the past, mostly critique groups, and those were wonderful, but I wasn't looking for a critique group, and there were a lot of those in the Baltimore Area. But what I was looking was—I was looking for just a community where I could go where there would be a little bit of pressure to make sure I was getting work done—

Jennia: Right.

Tiffany Aurora: —on a regular basis, but in like a kind, and a friendly, and a supportive environment. But I knew I needed that extra level of accountability or I just wasn't going to write anywhere near as much as I needed to. So because I couldn't find anything like that in Baltimore, I ended up starting the writers' group that I run now, which is called Agile Storytellers of Baltimore. And it sort of brings together a lot of the concepts of a writing group with some agile principles for, Mmm, people who are from the IT space. They're probably familiar with that. We do a lot of writing sprints and just, you know, making sure that you write a whole bunch and then taking a break and making sure that you're building a sustainable practice and things like that.

Jennia: What is the ideology behind having the sprints, and then the breaks, and doing that throughout the time period that you meet for?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. Yeah, so we do what we call writing blitzes, which are essentially two-hour get togethers where we write for 20 minutes and then we take a break for 20 minutes. And we do that over and over. So you get these four 20-minute sprints, as we call them. And that's when you write. And the idea behind it was a couple of things. So one is that pretty much anybody can write for 20 minutes. Even if you show up somewhere and you're just, like, "Oh, I am not in the mood to write today." (Jennia laughs). Like, you know what? You can sit down for 20 minutes and you can find something to write about. So part of it is just that 20 minutes feels like something you can actually do. It doesn't feel as overwhelming as 2 hours. And then the breaks is just a way to just break it up. So the idea initially was that those ten minute breaks would be movement breaks. So you'd sit down and write, and then you get up and move for ten minutes. And people do that. But it's a group, and people get to know each other and they become friends. And so it's kind of a combination of movement and just chatting and talking about what's happening in your story and what happened in your life this past week.

Jennia: Which is so good, too, because one thing that we talk a lot about on here—and then even you find this in online forums too—is the importance of building that community And so I like that you're doing that beyond just the, "Here is this regimented list of how we're going to break down this time and these time increments and what we expect from you within those time increments," but that you're also fostering this ability even to connect with other people.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. It's so important because there's a component of writing that is so solitary, and there are pieces of it that you get to do with other people, right? Like the editing process, the review process, all of that. But the art of sitting down and putting your thoughts on paper in the form of words, in this fairly linear process. You need something a little bit more. You need that community I think it really, really helps.

Jennia: Yeah, exactly. Because also, too, there is that you might get feedback, but it's usually so delayed that maybe your initial rush of feelings has already abated versus if you're able to do that with somebody else, even just talking through maybe the difficulties you had and writing for that 20 minutes. Or maybe you've hit a stall point in your work. And being able to discuss it in real time as it is still fresh on your mind and you're ready to look for solutions, there's something to that too.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. And something that's fun about this particular writing group that I didn't set out to create this—it just sort of happened—and that is that it's a writers' group, but it's really a storytellers' group.

Jennia: Oh!

Tiffany Aurora: —So we primarily have novelists and screenwriters. That's the majority. But we have had other people. We have people who have written—write role playing games—

Jennia: Oh fun!

Tiffany Aurora: —We have a couple of stand-up comedians that sort of drop in here and there, and they're working on jokes. And so the fun thing is that when somebody, during these breaks, when they say, "Hey, I've been struggling with this. You know, this is what's happening. My character's stuck. Do I do the classic, like, have a body hit the floor so I can just get things moving?" (Jennia laughs). Like, I don't know what to do. And all of a sudden, you get—people start just, like, sprouting out ideas, but they're coming from different places. So you're not just getting ideas from writers in your genre, which is wonderful, and you want to get those, but you also have a chance to get ideas from people who come at storytelling just from completely different angles. And I think that's kind of fun.

Jennia: Yeah, I know. It definitely is. It's sort of like that advice to read outside of your own genre in order to get those new ideas, or maybe even that fresh perspective you hadn't considered before. I think the same thing would apply just like you're saying here, where not even just genre, but moving from one medium to another.

Tiffany Aurora: Exactly. Yeah. There's so much we can learn. I know—like, I personally studied improv for a little bit. I'm not any good at it, but it was fun—but I bring a lot of those principles to writing, and especially in those moments when I get stuck, I think of, like, "Okay, what did I do, you know, when I was standing up on a stage and we were just improvising?" Like, you always have to add something, right? Add something, add something, add something. And if you don't have anything in your brain to add, look around you, see what sort of stimulation is there in your environment. Grab something and add it. And you may not keep it, but it just keeps things moving, and you can keep building a story that way.

Jennia: That's really interesting. So the original host for this show is a huge fan of stand-up comedy—

Tiffany Aurora: Oh no way!

Jennia: (laughs)—and had had some stand-up comedians on the show and has shared extensively his knowledge. So it's just—it's always so interesting to hear that it from someone else who's been through some of that same bit of background and has that same knowledge to apply to it. Because I think that, too, just shows that you can really find almost every facet of your life has something to contribute to the writing process, even if you think it doesn't.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, it's that willingness to be open and kind of explore what could be there that you can pull from. I agree. That's kind of part of the magic of writing.

Jennia: Yeah! Well, so how has your membership grown? What did it start out like? And what is it like now?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. So overall numbers have grown quite a bit. There's sort of two answers to that question. So one is—I put the group on Meetup, which is not, you know, particularly professional, but it's a great place to just find other people in your community And we mostly grew at the beginning just through word of mouth. So we meet in a public space. It's kind of like a public food hall. And literally at the beginning, I think the first meeting, we had four people. And then, you know, maybe a couple months down the road, we had tripled in size, and we had, like, twelve people coming on a regular basis. And most of it was just people who walked past. They saw all our writing stuff. They saw these little sand timers that we use where we go completely quiet for 20 minutes while we're writing. And then everybody's, like, chitter chattering for the other ten. And they just asked about it. They were like, "What are you doing? Oh, can I join? Like, is that okay?" So it's been a lot of that. So I think officially we have close to 400 members now.

Jennia: Oh wow! That's amazing!

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, but like anything, I mean, just because your name is on a roster doesn't mean everybody is coming. But what I have found—we've been running for almost three years now—and what I have found is there's sort of an ebb and a flow in terms of participation. And I think that's primarily due to the fact that most of the writers in our group, they have full time careers. Right? And this is a little more than a hobby. I would say it's a craft. Right? They're working on something. They're serious about it, because people who come to an event like this it's, you know, they're serious about what they're doing, but they have other things in life. And so one of the things that I've been really explicit about with the group is that, you know, like, we're always here. Come when you're ready. Right? And life does what it does and don't feel like just because something blew up and you needed to take three months to deal with a family issue or a health issue or whatever, don't feel like you can't come back. Right? Like, when you're ready, come back, plug back in. Writing is always here. Come back, start over. Because I think that most of us who write in that way, like, that's just sort of the way it works. Maybe your listenership is able to write every single day, which is wonderful if they're able to, but I think there's also a community of writers who can't quite do that, so—

Jennia: Yeah, I think it definitely varies by person and, like you said, also by life event and what else is happening. So even if that person may have previously been able to easily write every single day, eventually there's probably going to be something that life throws at them that makes that impossible.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. So my point in saying all that was just to say that, like, there's an ebb and a flow, and we'll see somebody, like, every week or a couple times a week for, you know, for two, three, four, five months, and then we won't see them again for a few months, and then they kind of come back. And so, you know, the participation sort of ebbs and flows like that because that's just life. Yeah, but we've been able to be quite sustainable over the course of the last three years, and it's been really fun.

Jennia: How many people come on average to each meeting? And then do you ever put a cap on how many are allowed to come per meeting? So maybe say we have a limit of 20 for this space.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, we haven't officially put a cap, but, so the thing is, because we meet in a public space, what I have found is that there's a natural cap, which I actually don't like, but this is the truth. So we will grow and we'll grow until we get—it's usually, it's a little less than 20. I would say it's probably closer to about 18 because that's about as many as we can squeeze into these tables in this particular space. And once we get past that, people have to sit at other tables, and I think that just—they don't feel like they're quite as much of a space. And then the group will naturally contract a little bit, and then it'll grow again and it'll contract a little bit. But, yeah, but I think, I mean, like, any sort of gathering there is sort of a natural limit in terms of, like, the feeling changes. You know—

Jennia: Oh agreed!

Tiffany Aurora: —about eight to 12 people, it changes. Once you hit about 18, it changes again. And so I think we've sort of naturally end up staying under about 18.

Jennia: Even just when you have one table and then you have to add another table, there's always that bit of almost, like, this invisible boundary line has been drawn, and these—

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah.

Jennia: —people at this table are going to be socializing and working together, whereas these people over here are going to be their own individual unit.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. It—as much as I try and make sure to talk to people and let them know they're part of it, I think that sort of the natural feeling is like, "Oh, I'm at the kids table now." (Jennia laughs). You know, "There wasn't space for me at the adult table," which is not the intention, but I think it just, it sort of ends up feeling that way because you feel like you're a little bit disconnected from the core.

Jennia: Mhm. You brought up earlier that this was not a critique group and how there were already so many critique groups. Why do you think the emphasis is on critique groups versus this one where it's more about accountability and community?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. I can only—I guess I can speak for myself in that when I first went looking for a writers' group, that's certainly what I was looking for. I had written the first draft of a book. I had no idea what to do next. And I was, like, "I should find some people who can give me some advice." And ended up finding a critique group. So my assumption is that that's probably true of a lot of groups. We've actually played around with some sort of critique-like models—

Jennia: Okay.

Tiffany Aurora: —I did like a scrum-team version of a critique group for six months, back a while ago, where it was basically just, like, this small group got together and every week they submitted something to a partner, and then got feedback, and then kept going. So it was kind of a more intense way to do a critique group, but on a much smaller scale. I think there's value in critiques—like, critique groups and beta readers, there's tons of value. And I encourage our writers to have that and to go find that. But, yeah, but I just think this is an opportunity to get something a little bit different. I think a lot of writers, like myself, struggle when they're writing at home (laughs).

Jennia: So true. They have said with—or I've read research that has talked about not just with writing but with really any goal, as long as you have accountability, you're much more likely to follow through and do it. That's even more true when you have more people that you are accountable to versus where it's just one, you might be able to come up with an excuse as to why you didn't do it. But now you have twelve people you're accountable for and that becomes increasingly difficult.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. And I will say this, and this is just a kind of a personal thing, but I—for the longest time, I hated the word "accountability." (Jennia laughs). But I—I know, which is—it's kind of funny. But the reason why was because I associated it with this sort of feeling of someone else thinks I need to be doing X and they are gonna hold me to their standard. And so that was what I associated with that word for a long time. And I was—I just, I didn't like it. I had almost like a repulsion with it. But then—But over the course of—you know, I would like to say just growing into adulthood—and I came to realize, like, accountability is really—It's about, like, the standard that we set for ourselves—

Jennia: Mhm.

Tiffany Aurora: —and then other people coming around us to say, "Okay, like, if this is what you have said you want to do, we're going to help you get there."

Jennia: I think that's an important difference, too, because your previous version of how you defined accountability almost feels like forced obligation—

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah.

Jennia: —Not so much accountability. But what benefits have you personally seen from being part of this group and from having that sense of accountability? Or even if others have shared some of their feedback with you, what have they told you? Or what has been the common theme that you've heard?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. I mean, I will say, not surprisingly, that the biggest thing that I hear on a regular basis is just appreciation for the community itself. Because a lot of writers, I think, feel—especially for this area of their life—they feel very isolated. Some of them may have people who are, like, in their life who understand what they're doing and are very supportive.

Jennia: Mhm.

Tiffany Aurora: —But some of them don't. So the community aspect, I think, is a big one. In terms of the writing, I mean, I for sure would not write anywhere near as much as I do, given the fact that I have this sort of weekly group that I meet with. And they meet more than once a week, but each of our groups is run by somebody else. And, yeah, it's just—like, being able to look back over the last three years and see the amount of content—and I won't publish all of it, you know. I mean, I've, you know, written multiple drafts of the same story, and yada yada. But the amount of content that I've been able to write and even just seeing the way that my own writing has improved over the last several years has been a very big thing.

Jennia: Do you think there's a difference in atmosphere with a critique group versus a writing group?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, and I think depending on what you're working on and where you are in the journey, I think they can both be very useful. I've been a part of multiple critique groups myself. And being able to get multiple perspectives on a story, like, they can catch things that, you, you know, maybe were very innocent about, but you just... all of a sudden you realize it came across not at all the way you intended. Not to mention just simple things about plot, and structure, and character development, and voice, and all of these things that, you know, the right people can help you sort of focus in on and improve. I have definitely seen and observed people within critique groups get very... Sometimes defensive—It's not always defensive. It's just—it's hard, you know, like, going through that process of getting feedback, it's hard—

Jennia: Mhm.

Tiffany Aurora: —and it's hard for everybody. And some people take it better than others, but also some people can give feedback and critiques better than others or do so in a way that just fits a personality better than others, right? And so we need that feedback, but all feedback is not created equal—

Jennia: So true.

Tiffany Aurora: —And I think you have to be even more careful in a critique group to find the right group of people in the right environment. And you find the right one and it's fantastic, it'll be so beneficial. This sort of group, it's just—it's more focused on the encouragement side of it. It's more focused on um, keep going, you know, iteration, iteration. Like, if you keep writing, even if your writing is really terrible, like you're eventually going to get better if you just keep doing it, right? (laughs). And you will get—

Jennia: Yes. That's true.

Tiffany Aurora: —you will get better at a faster rate if you get feedback and good feedback. So don't forget about that. You need that. But just the process of writing over, and over, and over again, like anything in life, that iterating process makes you better.

Jennia: Do you have any advice for people who aren't sure if they'd most benefit from a writing group or a critique group and how they can figure that out?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, I think... I mean, a big part of it is just where you are in your story, right? So if you already have a completed draft of something, a critique group is probably going to be helpful for you. It's hard to get critiques from a story that's still being developed if you don't at least have a draft because you may or may not quite know where you're going, and the group definitely is not going to know where you're going—

Jennia: Right.

Tiffany Aurora: —And so the feedback can be all over the place. So if you're looking for, you know, a space where you're just, like, "I just need that encouragement. I just need to make sure that I am producing content and new content on a regular basis," then that can be, it can be really helpful to come to a group like this. And also come to a group that's a little more open, where you can just sort of get to know people. And then once you get to know people, you're like, "Oh, I like how this person gives me feedback. I like their ideas. I feel like I would work well with them," great. Now you've made those connections, you vetted them, and you can ask them one on one, "Hey, are you open to maybe doing something a little bit more? Would you be open to exchanging work and giving each other critiques?" And maybe they are, maybe they're not. Just depends on what their time frame is. It takes a little bit longer, but it can potentially help you find better people to share critiques with.

Jennia: So moving on from helping people gauge whether or not one type of group or the other is better for them, are there any tips for how they can determine if this writing group is going to be a good fit for them, apart from going and visiting it in person themselves?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah, I mean, I think with so many of these things, like, the personality of a group is a big piece of it, right? The personality. And even just, like, the location. Like, the location where we meet, it's kind of loud. So if, you know, if you happen to be somebody who just doesn't function well in a loud environment, it's not going to be for you. So you can reach out to the person who runs the group. I've had people do that before—

Jennia: Oh okay.

Tiffany Aurora: —They'll send me an email or something and just say, "Hey, can you tell me a little bit about the group so I can gauge it that way?" But I do think at the end of the day, it's one of the best things to do is just to show up. Show up to one meeting, you know, there's no commitment on your part and it's—nobody's, hopefully, won't be offended if you don't come back (both laugh). We're all on this journey together, right? And it's all about finding the group that's right for you. So just—I would encourage you just to go visit if you can. And if not, like, reach out to somebody and ask some questions about what things matter to you, and what you need out of a group, and see if that group is going to be able to give it to you.

Jennia: Yeah, that's a really good point. I completely agree with that. That determining that list for yourself first, before you go. Because then maybe you might get caught up in, "This is what we're doing," but it really wasn't what you were looking for. And then just from that inertia of attending over and over again, you get caught up in it and you're still not completely satisfied. But it's possible, too, people don't know exactly what they want. They just know that they want something.

Tiffany Aurora: Yep. And I think it's also possible for it to change, right? Like, you might join a group and it might be good for you for a while. And then as you change as a writer, as you develop as a writer, as your story gets to a different place, you might be like, "Okay, now I need something else." And again, totally fine.

Jennia: Oh yeah, I think that's definitely completely normal. It's just like what you were talking about. There are going to be different stages in the process or where you're at with your writing. About, do you need a critique? Do you need accountability? Yes. I mean, that all makes so much sense. Especially if maybe they aren't meeting as often as you'd like, or maybe you feel too committed to attend this writing group, but you still want accountability in some form, but then you need to find it in a different form in order to fit where your life is at right now.

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. And not to totally throw this back on the writers (Jennia laughs) who might be listening, but I will say, if you can't find what you're looking for, consider starting your own group. You know, it does take a little bit of work, especially at the beginning, but I have personally found it a be... It was worth the effort for me, for sure. Don't be shy about whether or not you feel like you are, you know, qualified to start a group. If this is something that you want and you want to network with other writers and you can't find what you want, go start one.

Jennia: Yeah, good advice. So what did go into creating the group, apart from just the desire to do so and then setting up Meetup, but also, what are you still doing? What's ongoing as this group continues to grow and evolve?

Tiffany Aurora: Yeah. So, I mean, the core of the group has stayed the same, and that is these writing blitzes; a space where you can come and just sit down and do the work. So that's the core. That has not changed. And that will continue. We've tried a lot of other things, and when I say tried, that makes it sound like, "Oh, that didn't work," which is not the case. You need both. With any group, with any community to keep the aliveness in it, you need kind of a core—the thing that people come back to that they know they can count on over and over and over again—and you need new things. You need something to kind of breathe some life into it. And spontaneity—

Jennia: Just like marketing.

Tiffany Aurora: Exactly! Exactly like that. So we've done a number of things. We've done the scrum team that I mentioned before, where it's a much more intense way to develop a draft of a novel or a screenplay. We've done social events where we'll go out and have dinner at different restaurants. We've done a couple of workshops and trainings. We did an improv thing, like I mentioned. So we worked with a Baltimore improv group and hired one of their trainers. And, like, 20 of us all came together and did improv for a couple of hours, and then, you know, just sort of unpacked it afterwards and, like, "Hey, you know, what can you learn from this?" So we've done a lot of those different kinds of things, and always open to ideas, too, from members of the group.

Jennia: That's probably really the main component there that people should take away from this is to be open to ideas, and to not get stuck in a rut and feel like maybe this is the same thing they should be doing forever.

Tiffany Aurora: As writers, we need, I think, this influx of new input and new ideas all the time, right? It's like your brain developing all those new neural networks, and the only way to do that is to be exposed to new people, to new ideas, to new ways of moving. You know, all of it. And it's not just the things that we read. It's also the things that we hear, it's the things that we taste, it's the things that we smell, it's the things that we touch. You know, it's, like, it's a full sensory experience. And we bring all of that into our writing.

Jennia: Which we should know, because we all know that sensory details are so important in our writing.

Tiffany Aurora: I know! Exactly!

Jennia: Well, if any listeners are interested in checking out your group, what's the best way to get in touch with you? Or should they just show up?

Tiffany Aurora: They can just show up, yes, absolutely. They're welcome to do that. My website is tiffanyaurora.com, and you can also just Google "Agile Storytellers of Baltimore." Our group should pop up in the search. I also host a podcast called the Entrepreneurs & Artists podcast, and we've had a bunch of writers on there. We've also—You have been a guest, or will be a guest, actually, on an episode that is coming up in the very near future, which I'm excited about! So that's a great resource, too, for writers if they're interested.

Jennia: Well, thank you. Thank you again. If there's anything else you'd like to say before we close, or any other bit of advice you'd like to give about writing groups and why you would urge people to join one.

Tiffany Aurora: Just go find one. You will enjoy it. And you may not be able to go every week, but it is an investment of your time that I think will pay over tenfold, 100 fold, 1000 fold, over the course of your life.

Jennia: Well said.

Jennia: Thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information, including all of the links that Tiffany just shared! We have a new feature that allows you to text the show so you can also now text your thoughts and feedback even as you're listening. And I'll be reading some of those comments on air. And then please join me next week as award-winning author and editor Mekiya Outini will be sharing best practices for supporting EFL writers. Thank you again!