295. Why You Should Join an Online Writing Community with Ian Craven

Author and publicist Ian Craven discusses online writing communities, networking within the industry, and how you can improve your own writing in a group.

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Find Ian on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/icraven1
https://www.facebook.com/groups/aawriteandpublish/?ref=share_group_link

Subscribe to KaleidoScript or submit your own story:
https://www.kscriptmag.com/

A message from Ian:
My friend Melissa Desveaux and I launched a literary magazine this year, KaleidoScript: Bridging Fiction with Reality. We've been receiving Fiction and Nonfiction stories for publication.

Since Hurricane Helene and lots of other crisis events are going on in the world, we've held off from publishing until December. We want to make efforts to capture stories of hope on a global scale. We would like to collect stories from people whether they are hurricane victims or involved in relief aid. There are too many stories to capture everything in writing. I'm thinking for Hurricane Helene, I'll title the section, "America Rises in the Midst of Adversity." From the collection of stories, I'll give a summary of the experiences and outcomes to capture the spirit behind what is happening. Between Halloween and the election, it'll make an interesting documentation. If you would like to contribute or know people who could submit, feel free to use/share the submission link provided.

https://www.kscriptmag.com/submit-your-story

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. There are many reasons why joining an in-person writing group may be difficult for some, or even impossible. But luckily there are various online groups and joining one of these can be just as rewarding as an in-person option. Story coach book publicist, and author, Ian Craven, has created one such community, and he's here to share how it helps its members grow as writers and also why having this social network is important. This is, "Why You Should Join an Online Writing Community."

Jennia: Well, I'm delighted to have you here. Thanks for coming to the show!

Ian Craven: Thank you so much, Jennia, yeah. Yeah, so I never imagined I was going to have this Facebook group, but just being online, in general, being a part of different social networks, to have that kind of openness . . . You know, everyone wants to be heard, they want to be seen. And so I think that you need that ability to be able to be good at social networking and being able to bring people together. You know, everyone has different perspectives, you know, cross cultural and whatnot. So as far as starting the Facebook group, or whatever we're going after, you know, "Hey, I want to be an author and editor."

Jennia: Yeah!

Ian Craven: —You know, we look at people, I think, and we're like, "Hey, they know what they're doing, they're professional." Well, maybe they are (Jennia laughs), but not everyone has even reached that mark where they become that professional. So it's about getting started and going after that. So I had a messy start myself. I went—I was definitely into writing, so that's where my heart's at. But throughout my college career, I noticed that people—you know, I asked them, "Hey, what's the best thing about college?" Just, like, after my freshman year. And everyone said the community, and it's, like, you know, you need to find your tribe, right? And, you know, if you find your tribe, then you find your niche and all that. And kind of—you get settled into a purpose and a direction, right? And I knew that to be true. Like, well, for anything, I'm thinking, "Well, I'm not this big professional in writing." You know, and I don't have a background in literature. But I thought, "I know that we need to grow in community." And so I thought—I saw this as an opportunity to foster community where everyone can learn. And I started the group in 2014, and only in a couple of years—Well, I'll say, okay, at the very beginning of the group, though, it's just interesting. Like, you know, only a few people joined, but you just, you meet people. That's the . . . And it just—You meet people who are going to either stick it—like, stay in your life for a season—

Jennia: Mhm!

Ian Craven: —maybe they're lifelong. But everyone, like, leaves an imprint on your heart. And that to me is a powerful message to, like—for the journey that you take into this. And . . . Because you just don't end up with [a] social media team right away.

Jennia: Right, exactly.

Ian Craven: And even as you're learning to brand yourself. So it was actually 2020 when my Facebook group started, like, just taking off. Now, mind you, I hadn't been regulating it (both laugh). It was a mess. It was loads of scammers and, you know, trolls and whatnot. So I'd been a part of other Facebook groups, though, right?

Jennia: Yes.

Ian Craven: And, at this point, my book coach had encouraged me, "Hey, what about that social network that you talked about you wanted to create?" Because I'm a dreamer, right? So I like, "Oh, yeah, well . . ." She's like, "No, you should do it. You know, you should go after—you know, like, try and create that." And so I made this post and was trying to bring people together. I thought, "Hey, I can go get the editors, I can get the, you know, all the different kinds of people and bring them together into this social network." Which, it didn't pan out—

Jennia: Oh no.

Ian Craven: —in the process, I met Jess Waldron and she had an indie publishing company. So she has this eye for, like, social media, like, for marketing. And so she's able to look at my group and she just knew how to manage everything. I didn't know anything (Jennia laughs) about how to, like, organize this Facebook group, but she started, you know, organizing things, like, you know, I made her an admin.

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: And it was obvious, you know, that, you know, I didn't know what I was doing (laughs). But, you know, the thing is that there's something to take away from this is when you rise to any challenge and become something, it's a humbleness of rising together.

Jennia: So what are some ways that the group helps writers then, besides just bringing them together? What else do you offer them or how do you help them connect to resources?

Ian Craven: I see the group as being a funnel. It's a place where I can invite other people, other professionals, whether they're book coaches or publishers. It's a place where I can introduce other professionals, and for people to get insight. Well, what I'm working on—towards is having, like, a podcast for people where I can go live, have those different professionals, and get that insight. I've also had a heart to get people to write—

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: You know, and so . . .

Jennia: Yeah, that part can be hard just because you might have that idea, but you just don't know how to approach it.

Ian Craven: Yeah, yeah, that's been a learning curve. Like, just to connect with my audience. It leads me to the magazine So I met, Melissa Desveaux, who—she does self-publishing. And she has a Facebook group too. That was, Self-Publishing to Empower Authors, I believe it's called. She's been a big influence, so where she helps people with their self-publishing. And then I've had a passion to help people with their writing.

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: I thought, well, people need the opportunity to get recognized. They need the opportunity to publish their work. And that's where after I—her and I figured out what we're going to do together, you know, and how we help each other. You know, if I help people with the writing process, plus being connected with people where I can offer or refer different services, like, well, now it becomes this place where, you know, I can help guide people. Because it can be so hard. "Hey, I wrote this book, I self published." So other than just, like, getting your services—or, I mean, getting, like, your tips from the group, and, you know, being empowered through, you know, the content there, I really believe that being able to have that source, whether it's me, or being able to go to the magazine that Melissa and I created.

Jennia: Yeah, and just knowing that they're reliable sources too. Because some of the really, really big groups are almost just overrun with scammers, it seems like. You know, someone might ask for a marketing professional or an editor, and that post is just, like, flooded with responses that people in the know instantly recognize this as a scammer, or this response was written by ChatGPT, or this person doesn't actually have the credentials that they say they have. But yeah, I think that's one of the benefits to a group like this where it is monitored and you can sort of weed those people out so that they don't even have the capability of joining the group, let alone posting, and then taking someone's money for a product they can't actually deliver.

Ian Craven: Yeah. So, I mean, they're there. And then from that—from a group, you know, you're able to foster those lifelong relationships where your best friends do become, "Hey, I referred you to this person." You know, you meet somebody and they need help, and then so it becomes that safe space. So I would say the highlight of this group is one, getting those resources, but in addition to that, you're—you know, there's this safe space that's being fostered where it's, like, "Hey, I know people and if you just tell me what you need, then I can refer you." And that's been in addition to, you know, bridging fiction with reality—

Jennia: Just the magazine. Right.

Ian Craven: —Yeah. The magazine, yeah. And something about the magazine too. What's so powerful is it was back like actually 2014 when I even talked with a friend about, like, doing a magazine and I was thinking about having all these courses, like, how you could, like, meet—like, have a coffee shop or something and, like, just have this, you know, community. And I was just dreaming. And then it just started to make sense. It's, like, well, there's something in my heart, like, to be able to, like, I want to do this magazine. There's something about helping people with their writing and the fact that people have come to me and, you know, been able—I've been able to connect in such a way, you made it to get these different kinds of, you know, offers for commission. Yeah. So I feel, you know, like, one of the things about business, you know, in your community is it's your responsibility. So, you know, it's, like, "Hey, I need to take ownership for the people that are being brought into my life," and to really, you know, pay it forward . . . Yeah, I mean, it's definitely been a life changing—you know, altering experience where it's, like, "I didn't expect this," but it's—now it's become something where, you know . . . I mean, I'll meet someone one day and then it just, you know, the rest of your life changes. Like, you know, that they're taking you to the next level. It's really a fascinating journey. And then with that, you know, there's so many people that are joining the group. I think there's still a refining process, you know, like, in my posts because I mean, people actually are joining the group daily. And—

Jennia: Oh, that's good!

Ian Craven: Yeah, yeah, like, every day (both laugh). And it's, like, "Okay, well, what do they want?" One of the things—

Jennia: That's such a good way of looking at it too. That you're not just posting stuff to post stuff, or it's because, "This is of interest to me, so this is what we're going to post about" or, "This is what we're going to talk about." But you are keeping it member focused on how you can serve them.

Ian Craven: Yeah. So one of the things we have done, too, is, like, Melissa, she created a funnel, for the magazine. So the questions that you'd answer to get into the group, you know, we record all that. So we are aware of what the audiences (sic) needs—

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: —And so even, you know, like—you know, the Facebook group, Writing Tips for Writers, is a broad community, right?

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: So, in terms of the magazine, I see it as a more specific group that, you know, it's, like, who's going to buy from you, right? Who are your actual supporters? And from that we are making efforts to utilize, you know, a writing community that's specific for that and have lots of different offers. You know, so, like, well, I want to do book coaching, developmental editing . . . You know, Melissa can help with the publishing process. Oh yeah, and then Jared Kaufman, he's great too. He's helping us with the magazine, so—whether he's doing editing and book coaching . . . And then I have, you know, my own editors. I know Melissa has an editor. So we have some professional resources that I know that, you know, upfront. Now, that doesn't mean others can't come along. I know we are going through a time right now. We're trying to reshape the magazine and, you know, get people on board that, like, okay, we need more help. So we are going to do an assessment, like, at the beginning of the year, see how we can improve in moving forward. But it's been an incredible process. We're at the end of the last quarter of the year and we've had three publications that we launched just this year. And it's been a success. Yeah, but I'm so excited for, you know, this year coming up and what that'll mean for, you know, our audience and how we can serve them.

Jennia: Mhm. Well, going back to the group and some of those questions that you have when people enter, what are some of the most common responses that you receive and then how do you address that to make sure it's present in your group?

Ian Craven: So recently I've taken a look at, like, we've got a spreadsheet, right?

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: So, I did take a look at it, you know, people's answers. So there's . . . Like, they wanted writing tips, publishing help, critique community . . . So, I mean, a lot of times I really enjoy doing the polls. You know, I take the people's needs and I do a poll and it's, like, okay, so, you know—and then it's, like, the top three. You know, like, what's the top three needs of the people? And then how do you then shape content around that to help serve them? So, you know, sometimes people need, you know, they need that inspiration—

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: —to write as well. And so, you know, I made this post that I met somebody, and they told me that your writing would be, like, your most powerful weapon. And I think people need to be able to have that experience. They need to be able to . . . You know, it's not just, "Hey, I'm writing," but, like, they need to see the importance of what it means to write—

Jennia: So you're giving them motivation, too, apart from just tools and tips.

Ian Craven: Yeah.

Jennia: You're urging them on to continue.

Ian Craven: Yeah. Well, one of the things I've implemented, too, is doing writing sprints,

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: —which is such a great exercise because you can reintroduce it in so many ways. But the thing that I would probably tell my audience is, "Okay, let's, you know, let's get it. Be a part of these writing sprints." You know, how can we address these to help, you know, best suit your skill or your—or the direction you want to take as a writer? But at the end of the day, I mean, you could keep doing writing sprints or you're gonna sit down and write your story (laughs). Like, you just gotta do it. Like, it's more about discipline. But, yeah, doing the poll, I think for me, that helps anchor, you know, to show where's the starting ground? What can I do? Otherwise, I mean, because—you know, and then people also, they, you know, they can comment too. Like, whenever you make that post, and then there's a lot of feedback from the comments, then it helps give the direction because, you know, just because they're answering questions might not be specific enough to meet their needs.

Jennia: And it sounds, too, like you're constantly assessing, or at least periodically assessing, what these needs are. So as the dynamic of the group is shifting and changing, you can then accommodate that based on what material you're providing them with.

Ian Craven: Yeah. You know, there needs to be that encouragement with your—with the people in your group too. Like, there needs to be that human connection to encourage people to make those posts—

Jennia: Ohh.

Ian Craven: —Otherwise it's just another Facebook group, and who cares?

Jennia: Well, like you were saying earlier about it being a safe place, I think that's another integral piece to this, too, because it's one thing to have the community available to you, but then there's also that fear—because you do see this sometimes happen in social media groups—where you might voice a question and then someone tells you, like, "Oh, this question's been answered a hundred times, just do a search. Why can't you just do a search?" (laughs)—

Ian Craven: They'll be alright!

Jennia: —Because no one wants to feel attacked or that they're treated like they were stupid for asking. You know, you don't want to have that vulnerability exposed. So, yeah, just knowing that you are safe to ask and you are going to be treated with respect when you ask that question, I think that makes—

Ian Craven: Yeah.

Jennia: —That makes a difference too. But for some people, it might just even be understanding that they can do so safely within this group if they've had an experience where that hasn't been the case in the past.

Ian Craven: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. But one thing about community, is I sat in, I guess it was kind of a lecture, the one time . . . I was with some college students, but they were—It was the end of, like—they had this summer project. Some of their, I guess I would say, leaders were speaking to them at the end. And they're talking about a movement. I think it's, like, one person, like, got up dancing and at first it was a joke, right? But then, like, everybody, like, starts to do it, and then it's not a joke anymore. It's just fun (laughs). And—So I think it's something of—like that, like, once you—It's sort of, like, you make a post, you kind of hook people, right? You know, you do the hook—

Jennia: Right.

Ian Craven: —you know, you get their attention. And, like, If you bring people to—under that unified, cause, like, what is the cause of the group? Like, what are we going after together? Because it's—you know, I think the idea isn't that, "I'm writing and I'm going to publish my book," but, "We're passionate together and we're actually meaningfully pursuing, you know, our careers together." And that's kind of how I see it. You know, we're being honest with each other. I mean, that's what the group's done for me. I mean, you know, I have an author friend. It's like, "Hey, will you take a look at my writing?" You know, and we're exchanging services. You know, we're helping each other, honestly. And it's been so—like, the benefit that the group's being for me personally, it's, like, well, I want that to be for other people too. And that changes your life, gives you support that you wouldn't otherwise have through the writing journey.

Jennia: Yeah, and from people who understand. Not just, you know, let's say, it's your mom or something who's telling you, "You can do it, sweetheart." (both laugh)

Ian Craven: Oh yeah! Yeah, something I'll mention too. I was just talking with Melissa, something that we're offering. Melissa just made a—she runs the magazine part of things for the websites, so. But we just included—if anybody's interested on signing up for—to be beta readers—

Jennia: Oh fun! Wow.

Ian Craven: —that's available too. Yeah, so we are wanting to—

Jennia: People are always looking for beta readers! (laughs)

Ian Craven: Yeah, yeah (laughs). So we are juggling a couple—you know, the writing community, I think, is pretty clear to us as far as, you know, we have those services. But then we're juggling between, "Okay, we have a reader community, too, that we need to foster, so." Anyway, you know, so, like—you know, sometimes I get people posting their—You know, like, so people try and make certain posts where I'm, like, "Well, come on, check in with me so I can help utilize your post." You know, I can actually help assess and get you in the right direction, and not—Because that's not what this group is for, but there's a place for that, you know.

Jennia: Right. It's more about, like, that reciprocal give and take instead of someone just popping in when they need something at that moment without returning that to the group.

Ian Craven: Yeah. So, you know, being mindful of, okay, well, where's the readership at, you know? Because at the end of the day, once I put my book through the test, done all the hard work, if I don't have my community of people who are supporting me—Well, primarily, I think you need your beta and your alpha readers, you know, to test your book out. But then, if you're not building your readership, I mean, where's your success at? And I think you being, you know, present with your audience, being able to be a vital part of—you know, whether you're responding back to emails, you know, being in your messenger, you know—or, I mean, in your social media, which could be a distraction at times. Maybe you want to eliminate it to just, you know, "Email me." But, you know, being a conscious part of utilizing, like, your email list, that's going to get you somewhere (laughs).

Jennia: Is marketing something that comes up a lot within the group? Questions about it, for instance, how to do it, what to do?

Ian Craven: Well, it is another area of questions, like, well, of needed help. I know I did meet one author who, you know, they keep posting on their Facebook and other social media. And it's just, like, an endless cycle. Like, we need to find a way to get stories out there. Like, Amazon's not enough. And that's really where I've been passionate too. It's like, "Okay, we need to redefine how we market." But, yeah, I mean, I've grown aware of it. It's a struggle (laughs) since the part where it's, like, all right, well, let's think outside the box. Even with that, you know, the marketing schemes, you know, they're always changing. You know, AI is changing—it's you know, the way we, we do so many things, and—

Jennia: That's another reason why it's good to have a community, though, because you might see something in the person selling that service makes it seem like it's the best thing ever. But then you can go to this community of people who tried it and they're just, like, "Eh." So now, you know maybe to look elsewhere and you can, again, tap into that pool of people who've already had these experiences, already tried X, Y, or Z, and can tell you, "No, try A and B instead."

Ian Craven: Yeah, well, I think part of, at least my journey, has been, you know, finding people that have been successful in branding and marketing themselves, and knowing that, "Hey, they figured it out." And then being able to get that guidance from them. And, I mean, sure, you can do hacks, you know, you can say, "Oh, they market their book like this." But you also need your own unique approach, I think. That's going to make you stand out. Like, just in the past year, I've just learned about how in-depth, you know, marketing can become and what it means. I'm, like, "Oh, I was only scratching the surface the other year. Like, this is intense stuff." (laughs)

Jennia: Yeah. But again, like, that just really emphasizes the—really, it's a need to know other people in the community who have these different skill sets. Because even with, like, social media platforms and the algorithms changing, or the way hashtags use—are used and how they change, and maybe a hashtag that worked five years ago is now shadow banned. So none of your posts will be seen (Ian laughs). But if you don't know someone who knows that to tell you, you know, you could just keep going down that same route and then wonder, "I don't know why it's not working. I'm doing everything, you know, quote unquote, 'right.'" But, yeah.

Ian Craven: Yeah. I have also learned that there's always people that are like you that are going to connect with you. So there's that part of it, where now you're connecting with your audience. Like, if you try and kind of, I guess, not be yourself online, like, we try and be like, "Oh, that was too much. I can't say that." Then, like, maybe you're not allowing yourself to be who you are online if you have to break it down. So it is small steps, you know, like, scale simple. "Scale fancy fails" is what I learned. You know, a little bit at a time and it's broken down, but then there's the larger context being able to share that. So it depends where you're at in life, I think, you know, and . . .

Jennia: Well, before we end, what is the best way for listeners to find you?

Ian Craven: If you want to connect with me through the Facebook group or, you know, my profile. But I do have a personal one that I've utilized and I'm mostly on there. And that actually is more present with, like, I do post more in there and, like, that'll have more, posts for the magazine.

Jennia: Mmm.

Ian Craven: And if you're interested in a magazine, we have a Facebook page for the magazine, KaleidoScript Magazine. Yeah, I am on Instagram, but I think Facebook's the place to start. But, I mean, you could honestly just go to the website.

Jennia: Mhm.

Ian Craven: Or KaleidoScript and then, I mean, you can—If you message there, I mean, I'll get it. Yeah, so there are lots of ways (both laugh). Okay, so let's just break it down. Facebook, KaleidoScript magazine, and then we also have the Facebook page for the magazine, which is KaleidoScript Magazine. Yeah, all those links can be provided, so—(laughs).

Jennia: Well, thank you again. And thank you also for that little bonus episode on marketing, which is always helpful advice because (both laugh) that just is a whole topic unto itself that seems to be a never ending process.

Ian Craven: Yeah. Which I'm passionate about, but yeah, one thing to tackle at a time.

Jennia: Yes, exactly (both laugh).

Jennia: All right, well, thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information, including all of Ian's links. And then please join me next week when Danielle Mendoza visits to share the steps you can take to have a successful book launch. Thanks again!