319. Using Loss to Build Connections with Jessica Fein

Author and advocate Jessica Fein speaks about loss, using it to rebuild, and tips for how you can balance heavy topics in your manuscript.

CW: Mentions of grief, loss of a child

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Visit Jessica's website:
https://www.jessicafeinstories.com/

Get a copy of her book:
https://www.jessicafeinstories.com/copy-of-book

Check out Jessica on her socials:
https://www.instagram.com/feinjessica/
https://linktr.ee/Jessicafein
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-fein-b643b09 

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. Loss is part of life and it can leave us feeling isolated and adrift. But grief can also be used to build connection with ourselves, with others, and with an entire community. Jessica Fein, author of Breath Taking, is here to share how this can be done through your writing and how she did it with her own book.

Jennia: Thank you so much for being here today!

Jessica Fein: Thank you so much for having me!

Jennia: You wrote such a beautiful and moving memoir. And it was one of those things going in where it was almost surprising how much humor was in it. And I was hoping you could give listeners just a brief summary of that before we officially start the interview.

Jessica Fein: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for saying that because obviously it's a scary topic, right? When we're talking about grief and when we're talking about child loss.

Jennia: Yes.

Jessica Fein: People are really scared to pick up a book like that. So I really appreciate that you mentioned the humor in it, because my daughter was full of spirit and humor and laughter, and that was something that I wanted to make sure to carry through in this book. So I'm glad that you felt that that was there.

Jennia: Oh, it was definitely there. Or even when you would kind of hop back in time a little bit about here is how I met my husband, or here is this walk through a grocery store, or whatever it was. And I think that also helped with the balance too. And so we got to see a little bit of you and your family and what things were like—It feels crass to say before and after, but—

Jessica Fein: Oh, h—listen, my whole life is a series of befores and afters, so that's fine. I mean, I don't find it crass at all. You know, a friend of mine gave me a huge compliment when she had read the book before publication, and she said that the humor was like a beat that allowed the reader to take that breath. And of course, the book being called Breath Taking, I appreciated that. You know, she felt that it gave that relief just when you needed it as a reader.

Jennia: Yes, exactly! I completely agree with that. She worded that so well. Yeah, so if you'd like to go in, then, and even say, maybe what was your original goal when you were writing this, not just for yourself, but also for the reader?

Jessica Fein: Yeah, well, I will say, and people have been really surprised by this, that this book was written when my daughter was alive. So just for people who have not yet read the book—and hopefully everybody who hasn't yet will read it—but this is a book that talks about how my husband and I built our family, which was in a bit of an unconventional way. We spent five years in fertility treatments, doing all kinds of increasingly creative approaches, and ultimately decided to adopt, and adopted three babies from Guatemala. And at that point, we thought the hard part was over. We could start our blissful family life that we'd been working toward for so many years. And in many ways, we did. But when our middle child, Dalia, was five, she was diagnosed with an ultra-rare degenerative disease. And so this book really takes us through what we do when the life we had envisioned turns out to be a fantasy, and when we're dealing with something that we believe is beyond our ability—that we think it is too difficult for us to be able to handle, how we do handle it, and how we do create beauty and joy and meaning in these very trying, difficult, unimaginable—in many ways—circumstances.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: So the book really ended originally on a very joyous note. And, in fact, I had found my agent, and we had sold it to a publisher during my daughter's lifetime. And so it was then that I had to go in when my daughter died at 22, and add that epilogue. So . . . yeah. So I wrote the book because I was living through something that was, at the same time, utterly unique. And I use the word unique deliberately. I mean, Dalia's dual diagnosis was one of six in the world.

Jennia: Oh wow.

Jessica Fein: So we're really talking about something unique. And yet, absolutely universal. Wanting to protect our family, wanting to give our children the best childhood possible, trying to make order out of chaos. I mean, all those things. Right? And I knew that I was bearing witness to something that needed to be chronicled. I also felt that writing the story allowed me to gain some control of the narrative. The world was spinning so chaotically at that time for us, and so I used it as an outlet in that way and wrote most of the book at my daughter's bedside.

Jennia: Yeah, that's really interesting, because so much of the common advice with memoir is to have that distance and to let time go by before you even begin contemplating it, let alone writing it. And you did the exact opposite.

Jessica Fein: I did the exact opposite, right?

Jennia: Right!

Jessica Fein: And the whole thing about "write from the scars, not from the wounds," you know? But I will say it was interesting because the fertility part of the book—which actually originally was much, much, much longer, and we ended up shaving it way down. But that, because that had happened so many years earlier, I will say the process of writing that part was very different than the process of writing kind of the real-time stuff.

Jennia: Yeah, I can see that. You did talk about it being cathartic, but can you explain a little bit more in detail what it was like writing in the moment versus being able to go back and how you even balance the feelings that you were having as you were writing? So maybe they didn't pour across the page so much as they were represented on the page.

Jessica Fein: Yeah. And I'll tell you, one of the interesting things is that a lot of the things that we went through, like, for example, at one point we're stuck in the pediatric intensive care unit, for three months when my daughter was nine. And I wrote a few chapters about that. I didn't write that while that was happening. You know, now let's say I wrote that in 2020 and that happened in 2014, when we talk about something being cathartic, the beauty of that was I was able to visit that place and then shut down and go and do something else. When we were there, there was no escape. Right? So being able to go in, process what happened a little bit for, you know, 20 minutes or an hour or whatever, and then go, like, have a meal or watch a movie. Right? And so that being—you know, was one way, I think, that I was able to process in a healthy way what had been so insidious as it was happening.

Jennia: Mhm. Well, then you would have the benefit later, too of, revising and editing, where, again, you do have some of that distance from time. But as you were writing it, what emotions did you hope to evoke in the reader? And were there any that you tried to avoid?

Jessica Fein: Oh, that's a good question! I wanted the reader to feel love. And I say at the beginning, this is a love story.

Jennia: Yes!

Jessica Fein: And, you know, somebody early on pointed it out to me—Linda Sivertsen, who is a terrific writing coach who wrote the Beautiful Writers' Guide. I was at one of her retreats and she's the one who said, "This is a love story." And it was interesting. She said, "This is a love story to your husband."

Jennia: Ohh, okay.

Jessica Fein: And I feel like it was a love story to the whole family.

Jennia: Yeah.

Jessica Fein: And was—you know, I talk a lot about being blessed versus being cursed because I've had so much loss. And it would be easy to say what kind of curse is on me that I have lost, you know, my parents, my sisters, my daughter. And I think the flip side of that is being blessed with such loving relationships. And so, you know, first and foremost, I think the emotion I'd want is for people to feel the love that hopefully spills off the pages. I'd want them to feel the fierce protectiveness that I had toward my people, that I have toward my people. I'd want them to feel the determination and ultimately the resignation, because those were two really strong emotions that I went through. I'd want them to feel the chaos, but also the peace and the beauty.

Jennia: Mmm.

Jessica Fein: So I hope they feel a whole multitude of things, because really, that's what it was about. A whole multitude of things.

Jennia: Yes!

Jessica Fein: What would I want them to avoid? I would want them to not close the book and feel despair. I'd want them to close the book and feel like they had been on a really meaningful journey with me—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: —that they got to know how it is possible that we can create these moments—no matter what we're going through—these corners of beauty. I'd want them to be maybe a little inspired by Dalia, who was such an inspiring human. So those are some of the things I—I guess I—I guess I got back to what I want them to feel, not what I don't want them to feel (both laugh). I don't want this to feel just, you know—

Jennia: It all sort of goes together!

Jessica Fein: Yeah, it all smudges. That's right. It's like a big old cocktail.

Jennia: That's how you know you've really hit your theme. And I did write down "This is a love story" as one of the quotes that I pulled out, just because it sets the tone before you've even really begun. And so I think it helps the reader to have that in mind. And even if they aren't consciously thinking about it, they know that this is now setting the stage for what they're going to be reading. It's not going to be a deep dive into grief and how you pulled yourself out of it or still processing it. But that really is the focus, and it's the focus on every one of the relationships that you share and those people that you lost. And another question I had was about the small joys that you wrote about, because you included those too. And again, I'm thinking even the interactions with your sisters, too, those were small joys. And they're probably moments that if you hadn't lost them, maybe people wouldn't think about them as much as they would where they are here, when they're included. And now they have that extra layer of meaning to them.

Jessica Fein: Absolutely! I mean, when you're going through such trying circumstances, ordinary things become extraordinary. And being able to accomplish what people don't even think about—a successful outing to Target, whatever. There's a victory in that.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: Right? And so, you know, my daughter's disease was degenerative. She ultimately lost all functionality. She was frozen. She could not move for two years. She lost her ability to walk and talk and eat and breathe without a ventilator. And we continued to live life, and that was by following her lead, following her example. So anything that we did, bringing—you know, having a family dinner every single solitary night of her life, including the night before she died, there was a victory in that. I mean, people don't even think about what it means to sit down with your family for dinner. Right?

Jennia: Right, yeah. You take it for granted, for sure. Just something you do. It's not something that you think, "Maybe someday I won't have this anymore."

Jessica Fein: Exactly, exactly.

Jennia: Well, can you talk a little bit more about those small joys and that they bring you comfort, but also why that does lead to a feeling of connection, not just for you, but for the readers who are lucky enough to read this book?

Jessica Fein: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I really learned so much from the people in my life who were going through these different things. I mean, I talk about my sister, who had stage four lung cancer, throwing—two months before she died—the hugest Hannukah party. She was, like, just going to be all in. And, you know, these people—I often imagine, like, oh my god, I'd be curled up in the fetal position. But none of them were, you know? And so you follow their lead and you want to give them right back what they're putting out. I mean, I'll give you a perfect example about a moment of beauty: For us to go out, my husband and I to go out, it was a very complicated endeavor because we needed a full-time nurse and we needed a babysitter if the two of us were going to go out. Because a nurse is not a babysitter and we had two other kids. Well, that's complicated. It's expensive. You got to find a nurse a and a babysitter who are available—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: —You've gotta find a nurse and a babysitter who get along, you know. And yet we prioritized going out together. But one night, plans fell through and we were very disappointed. And our daughter was—Dalia was in bed. Her room was very much like what you would imagine an intensive care unit room to look like, you know, with ventilators, and food pumps, and a hospital bed, and a ceiling lift, and all the stuff. And our other two children set up a folding table at the foot of Dalia's bed with a tablecloth and a candle and cooked us dinner and waited on us. And they're in the candlelight and also the light of Dalia's machines and with the, you know, quote unquote "music" of the hissing of the ventilator, you know, in the background, they created for us this gorgeous experience of having a dinner, the two of us, that they prepared and made for us. And I'll tell you, it really was better than if we had gone to, like, I don't know, whatever the fanciest restaurant was. There was so much love from them coming to us. And for us to be able to do that and to have that time within time, you know—for so many years, we had, as my friend Myra Sack says, "one foot in the land of the living and one foot in the land of the dead." And we lived that way for so many years. So being able to have these moments sustained us. And I will tell you that the memories of them nourish me now.

Jennia: Yeah, I think that's an excellent way to look at it, too, just for other people to hear, because it's advice I've heard as well, but not phrased quite the same way. And it's talked about how—are you going to dwell on these memories and be sad that you're never going to have anything similar again, or are you going to be able to look at them and feel joy because they happened and they were part of your life experience and that you were able to have that, whatever it was?

Jessica Fein: Right.

Jennia: And so I do think that's excellent advice. But it's so easy, though, too, especially when we're really, really raw in our grief and it is still scraping us apart, to fixate instead on the opposite.

Jessica Fein: Yes, yes. And, you know, it's waves. I mean, it's all the metaphors that we've heard. Right?

Jennia: Yes! They're all true.

Jessica Fein: Waves that crash over—any metaphor works. And everybody's process is, you know, their process. And there are horrible, horrible moments of devastation in my grief. And there is a lot, a lot of gratitude as well. And I don't mean that in a Pollyanna way, but, you know, I think about all of the little details that had to line up perfectly for me to even become my daughter's mother. And thank god!

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: Right? What kind of divine pattern was in play to bring us together? Because I am who I am because I'm her mother. So I've got to have gratitude for that. How could I not?

Jennia: Yeah, I agree. Well, you had so many poignant lines that I want to just pull out—

Jessica Fein: Okay!

Jennia: —but, of course, I had to limit it because we only have half an hour! (laughs) But one of the lines that I write down was, "The sadness and the joy danced together." And, again, I think, just like with that first line about "This is a love story," that's something else that we see throughout. And I'd love to hear how you think that could be a theme for life in general, but also what you hope readers take from that.

Jessica Fein: Yeah. Thank you very much. And I think the whole book was a bit of a dance, right? And it was like anything—you know, in a dance, you twirl and you get dizzy and you fall down and you get up and you soar and you—you know, I mean, it's everything. Right? And so I feel like—look, we all know that when you're going through really horrible things, the moments of joy mean more.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: And when you're going through horrible things and you have joy, there's always a twinge of sadness that comes alongside them. But I wouldn't have supposed before I went through what I did that joy and sadness really could hold hands. I would have thought, if you're going through the worst thing imaginable—and any single person will say the worst thing imaginable is to lose a child. It's kind of like that's what people say.

Jennia: Yes.

Jessica Fein: I'm not sure I agree. I don't think that any—it's on any of us to decide what the single worst thing that could happen is. It's a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible thing. Okay, so we all agree with that. And I would have thought, if you're watching your child lose day by day, these abilities—that degenerative disease is so cruel—how could you also, at that same time, be happy? That could not be possible. I would have thought—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: —how could you also, at the same time, smile, laugh, find joy, be silly? And what I learned is, of course you can! And it's so much more important to do that, because at the end, as you say, when you're looking back, when you say, "Okay, we had 17 years," does it want to be 17 years of sorrow? Or does it want to be 17 years that of course had sorrow, but also had all of this other stuff? And when we talk about, "That's life," right? I mean, none of us is going to, like, dance through unscathed, but we're going to deal with all of it. We're going to deal with the fear and the loss and the anx—every single one of us. So we've got to figure out how we can also hold on to the joy and the happiness and all of the things that we welcome with open arms. And when those two things reside together, each does become stronger.

Jennia: Mhm. I liked it too. Because it's not as if these events or relationships or emotions all exist in a vacuum on their own, and that they are coexisting. And I think that just speaks to the layers of life and that even within the same hour we can be laughing and crying. And we all know that's true. But it also helps show that this is a real story, where I think if we then instead isolate it down to one core emotion and that's the focus, we're leaving out so much and we're not really sharing the actual experience.

Jessica Fein: Yeah. And I love when you say we can be laughing and then we can be crying, because one thing I think about is, you know, when we're so sad, we cry, but when we laugh hysterically, we also cry. Right? I was just—I was crying—I was laughing so hard I was crying. And I think that alone shows that our body responds to the happiest, laughingest moments and the saddest moments of despair. Our body responds the same way with tears. That to me, shows how connected they are.

Jennia: Well, exactly! And again, it goes back to that whole, "they don't exist in isolation." Because we also know, even if it's not on a level that we're aware of, that we need some relief. And so our body is going to crave that the same way it's going to crave food or sleep and draw us in that direction even if we're fighting it. It knows that just to sustain who we are, we need to have that break. We need to have whatever it is to bring us back to a more balanced level.

Jessica Fein: I totally agree. And I feel like that's why when you're trying to support somebody who's going through grief or suffering, follow their cue. Because you might find them at a moment where they're ready to, you know, have that moment of relief. And one of the things that I find is when you're going through something and others come and try and support you, they're coming—you know, they're girding themselves and they're coming in and ready to weep with you. And maybe you're not in the weeping place at that point.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: So when you're trying to support somebody, try and, again, follow their lead and see if you can read their emotions and meet them where they are.

Jennia: Yes. And I think you and I both realize we're not talking about people who are suppressing their emotions or not processing it, but again, just realizing that we're all on that teeter totter and we might be at a different place one minute and then another place the other. And again, yeah, just read those cues, but also with writing, make sure that they're represented in what you're sharing because otherwise you're leaving out more than half the story.

Jessica Fein: Exactly.

Jennia: Well, so going back to writing, too, how did you identify and draw out those universal elements or relationships which you talked about a little bit? And how did you make sure that those were represented well within the book?

Jessica Fein: You know, I was very aware of what makes this story interesting to somebody who doesn't know me.

Jennia: Mmm.

Jessica Fein: Right? I mean, because otherwise it's just like a diary. What is the universal story I'm trying to tell? Sure, the story is illustrated by the specific events that happened to me, but the theme is not the specific events that happened to me. That's the plot.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: The theme is something we can all relate to. And again, I do not believe that anybody will read this whose child has the exact same diagnosis as my daughter had. And it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: Doesn't even matter if your kid had a rare disease. It doesn't matter if you've dealt with loss. It doesn't matter. Because the universal theme is learning we're capable of so much more than we ever thought possible. The universal theme is making order in a world where we have no control. The universal theme is slowing down and learning to be present. I mean, there's so many universal themes. And I think when we're writing memoir, we have to be clear that what we're trying to convey is something that people can learn from and glean from. Most of the time, memoir is giving us something we can use in some way in our lives, even when our life is so dramatically different from the person writing the story.

Jennia: Right. And I do think a lot of us read it for connection with ourselves, but we could also be reading it for a connection with someone else. Maybe someone is going through something similar and you're not comfortable asking them what this is like for them, but you also want to understand so you can help them so that you can be a solid support system. And I think sometimes when we're reading about those lived experiences that are so vastly different from our own, that's exactly what it helps us become capable of doing.

Jessica Fein: I agree.

Jennia: And then going back to connection: do you think that there are ways we can find connection through writing that we can't find through in person support?

Jessica Fein: Oh my god, yes! Well, first of all, I mean some of us, like I am way more comfortable writing than being like, "So let me tell you about all of this." Like I've become more comfortable speaking about it just cause I've spoken so much about the book. But for me you're going to get a much more honest report if you read something I've written than something that I've said. That's just because I'm more comfortable that way. We write in isolation. It's a very individual experience. And then the book goes and it has its readers and its editors and its designers and all these people, right? But ultimately it lands with a reader. And again it's a one-person experience. So in that way it's so much more intimate.

Jennia: Yes.

Jessica Fein: Right? I mean, I shared things in this book that it would be so weird for me to, like, just say to you. Right?

Jennia: Right.

Jessica Fein: But when you're reading it, like, to me it's just such an intimate experience. And so I feel like we can connect in a much—again, for me, in a deeper way.

Jennia: Mhm. I agree. And I think that's especially true for readers also. And again, I think it goes back to, does it feel like an intimate experience when you're reading it? Do you feel like this story is being told to you and not just to an audience of 100 or 1000, but when you feel like you're in the room with that person? That's when it becomes something you're able to just soak in and become part of you in your mindset and your world perspective.

Jessica Fein: Thank you! I appreciate that because that is the number one thing. Like, I feel like I was out for a cup of coffee with you.

Jennia: Yes! I think one of the reviews said that, yeah. I will say it was easily readable and I was one those people who went in bracing myself. "This is going to be difficult. I'm probably going to have to take breaks and step away." But then I didn't (laughs).

Jessica Fein: Yeah. Yeah! It's interesting because I would have supposed as well that people might pick it up and put it down. But I'm glad people are kind of not wanting to put it down.

Jennia: Right. But I think that also just—I think it does go back to those small moments that you talked about and the humor because you did weave them in throughout. It wasn't, "Here's a block of humorous moments and now here's this giant block of grief and terrible things happening." And so you're able to easily flow from one to the other without needing to take that moment and step away and breathe and bring yourself back to wherever you are going to be able to continue.

Jessica Fein: Yeah. Thank you.

Jennia: And then that actually goes into something else. And this was also found in the reviews, but I think it was also written in your summary, that you see the words "hope," and "celebration" and "resilience." Those came up often. And so how do you think each of those is related to building connection?

Jessica Fein: Okay, so hope, to me, is the opposite of despair. And I think there's always something we can hope for. Right? I mean, there's magical thinking, but there's also hope.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: And for me, in my story, when we think about connection, I mean, so much of what we were hoping for had to do with how we were able to connect with our daughter, how we were able to give all three children a normal childhood. I mean, it was very much—you know, it wasn't something that just had to do with me. It was very relational. So that was hope. Well, celebration, I feel like, also, you know, again, it was very communal. It was very familial. It was very connective. And I also think that seeing how we could celebrate those ordinary moments, it allows connection because it helps other people see how they can celebrate ordinary moments. And I'll tell you something. We're all going to have a lot more ordinary moments in our lives than we are extraordinary moments. So if we can get to a place where we're celebrating the ordinary, it's going to be a much more celebratory life.

Jennia: Yes (laughs).

Jessica Fein: And resilience. You know, I love thinking about resilience. Like, is resilience something that we are born with? Is it something that we develop? Is it something that's modeled for us?

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: For me, it's a lot about connection, because I believe that it was modeled for me, starting with my mother. And then it was my sister and it was my daughter. And watching them—now, I think there are people who have known me my whole life who will say, "Oh, come on, Jess, you've always been resilient." And maybe that's true. I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, there are traits we're born with, but for me, I think we can get so much out of watching how other people and learning from other people. And for me, those three people, my mother, my eldest sister, and my daughter. And it's funny, I say somehow I feel like my daughter inherited it from my sister and my mother. And remember, we were not genetically related, but I think she inherited it because these are such—three such resilient women. And I watched them and I learned from them and I connected with them. And I hope that I am now maybe modeling that for other people, because that's how we continue to celebrate the legacy—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jessica Fein: —of the people who meant something to us.

Jennia: I would say you are, not just from my own personal reading of the book, but even from the other reviews that all bring that word up and you see it come up so many times. So I think that shows that you've done exactly that.

Jessica Fein: Thank you.

Jennia: And if you had one main message you'd like to leave listeners with, what would that be?

Jessica Fein: Only one! Okay, that's hard (Jennia laughs). I mean, I think we've covered off on a lot of them, but I would say that we are capable—all of us—of more than we think. And I'm gonna sneak in a second, which is that no matter what you're going through, don't close yourself off to the possibility of beauty and joy. Because those can find their way in. They are very stubborn, and they can elbow their way in no matter how bad the circumstances are.

Jennia: Well, thank you again for this incredible conversation and for being here.

Jessica Fein: Thank you so much for having me! And I hope everybody will go check out the book!

Jennia: Yes, I do too. And we'll have a link!

Jennia: And thank you for listening, and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information, including all of Jessica's links and one to her book! And if you enjoyed today's show, I'd greatly appreciate it if you shared the episode with a friend. And then please join me next week when Mari Myers will be here to talk about how to enhance your picture book's packaging. Thanks again!