322. How to Balance Sensitive Topics in Your Writing with Becca Kinzer

Author and nurse Becca Kinzer talks about her experience in writing heavy topics, gives tips on creating a light-hearted subplot, and discusses the necessity of incorporating these challenges into the romance genre.

▬

Check out Becca's website:
https://www.beccakinzer.com/about

Grab a copy of her books:
https://www.beccakinzer.com/books

Follow Becca on Instagram for more updates:
https://www.instagram.com/beccaannkinzer/?hl=en

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. When we read a romance, we know to expect a happily ever after by the time we reach the final page. But before that, a transformation has to take place for both characters that makes it impossible for them to embrace love. But their stories are often bound together by all the other trials and events that are part of our everyday lives, not just this romantic journey. But how do we write about some of these more sensitive topics without overshadowing the romance aspect when we're writing this genre? Becca Kinzer is here to share how she just did this in her new book, First Love, Second Draft.

Jennia: First, it's lovely to have you here!

Becca Kinzer: I'm happy to be here! Thanks for having me.

Jennia: I'd love to have you get started by just sharing a little bit about your upcoming release and maybe what inspired you to write it.

Becca Kinzer: Sure. So this book is called First Love, Second Draft. It's my third romantic comedy that's getting published. And I think what first inspired me was this was the story my editors wanted (Jennia laughs). So I was like, "Oh!" I had released two stories. My first contract was for two books, we did that one, and they were asking, "What other stories do you have? And I pitched them this very lighthearted, kind of silly, small town story. And my agent had recommended, "Just tag on another idea. Doesn't have to be real thought out, just a short paragraph." So I did have this other story I'd written years ago about a divorced couple and it was kind of a little heavier, but I put that on there 'cause I was like, "Well," 'cause I have it. And of course that was the one.

Jennia: Ohh yeah.

Becca Kinzer: They were like, "Tell us more about that one," 'cause they liked the writer angle. The wife is a romcom writer and the guy is a baseball player. And they're like, "Oo, we like the sports angle." So that was the one. I was like, "Okay, I think we'll try this route." So the initial draft I had of it was a lot heavier, which I'm like, "This is a different tone than my first two stories." And, I mean, we wanted it to be a romcom. So I had to go through several drafts of, "Okay, how do we keep some of these serious elements, but lighten up the tone so that readers are having a good time while they're reading it, even though there are some heavier aspects?"

Jennia: Yeah, that does bring up an interesting question right away which is, how do you approach topics like that in something labeled as a romcom versus, say, just contemporary romance? Or then readers are expecting that humor too?

Becca Kinzer: Well, and I think that's part of it, is having the banter. They still—they have that chemistry in that past together. It's a second-chance romance. So I think you can have a lot of fun. I mean, eventually they're going to have to have those deeper talks, but initially you kind of ease into it. And with this story, one of the other ways is I have a subplot with the main woman's nephew. And there's kind of a second romance in the story too. So I think when things kind of start getting like, "Oo, we could be getting too heavy," we can go to the subplot where they're in the early stages of romance and it's a little more playful and fun with that story.

Jennia: Did you always have that subplot to move over to, or is that something that you added later?

Becca Kinzer: I did have that in the first draft. I always had the nephew's point of view. His story almost took over the story because I had his point of view as well as his love interest's, and it was like, "The story is becoming theirs now." (Jennia laughs) So I did have to tone back on just keeping the nephew's point of view. Because he's kind of the matchmaker there at the beginning. Like, he wants to see them get back together. So, yeah, I always had his story.

Jennia: And then how do you also bring in those sensitive topics without letting the romance part be overshadowed? Was that something that you had to consciously think about or go back and revise to make sure that that didn't happen?

Becca Kinzer: I think I knew they were a divorced couple. So I think it started with, "Well, why did they divorce?" And I wanted to come up with a reason that didn't involve cheating because it was like, that's a whole different story that would require telling. So it was coming up with, what's a valid reason that two people who love each other—and you can tell they still love each other—would push away from each other? So, you know, there's, I think, grief and loss and some of that disappointment in marriage and how couple's navigate through that. They may still love each other, but they just don't get through it together.

Jennia: Right. I think the second-chance romance almost lends itself to embracing that more sensitive topic. Just because the divorce or the separation aspect alone, that's something heavier for them to already deal with. So, in a way, it provides that foundation for just the knowledge that there has to be something else there.

Becca Kinzer: Yes. And there was a time I brought that concern to my editor of, like, "Do you think it's okay that they're divorced?" and—because, really, my stories, I like them to be humorous and lighthearted, and kind of threw around the idea, well, maybe they weren't married. Maybe they were just engaged. But it's like, well, no. I think to tell this story, I wanted them to have truly been a union. Like, they were together, and how it fell apart, but then how they come back together. I think it just makes it a little bit more of a powerful story.

Jennia: Mhm. Do you mind sharing what it is that broke them apart and maybe even how you found ways to write that into the story?

Becca Kinzer: Sure. So in the early drafts, when it was a lot heavier, they had lost a child, and I was like, "Okay, that's"—I don't know—"that's just a little too heavy for me" So what we went with was [an] infertility battle. And he's also baseball player, so he's gone a lot. So it was that struggle of him being away and her life not going how she thought it was. And what we all experience of really having that desire, really wanting something, and being stuck in the waiting and the waiting. And then how you deal with that.

Jennia: Right. Which is the hardest part, really, is that waiting.

Becca Kinzer: It is. Yeah. Because you don't know. Will it happen? Will it not? Do I need to let it go? Do I—And it kind of just reaches that tipping point and she kind of pushes him away. But with that, "Now I need you to fight for me." And he doesn't. And I did talk with—It is something that I have not personally experienced. That was one thing that made me a little—

Jennia: Oh, okay.

Becca Kinzer: —like, "Okay, I haven't walked this particular journey," but it was helpful talking to women who have. And one of them, I mean, she kind of gave me her blessing. We had a big talk, and she shared some very personal details and was like, "I wanted to kill my husband, but he didn't know what to do." And, I mean, so it just gave me some insight of, like, "Of course I loved him, but he felt helpless in the situation." And so that was kind of what I geared for Noah, is he just doesn't know how to help. Like, it reaches the point—And then he also has this job. It's like—

Jennia: Oh, right. Yes, I can see—

Becca Kinzer: —"Sorry. Yeah, I gotta go."

Jennia: "You're going through this, but I have to go away for two weeks," right—

Becca Kinzer: Right. It's so—

Jennia: —They had those other feelings in there that come with that.

Becca Kinzer: And so, yeah, that's also becomes, like, a timing issue (laughs) when you're trying to make a baby. It's like, this happens at certain times. So, I mean, it's something that writing this story . . . I hope putting it into a romcom it's like, this is a topic that we should be able to talk about. And I hope it does make women who have walked through that feel maybe a little bit more seen of, "This is a struggle." Because it's a hard one to talk about.

Jennia: It is, yeah.

Becca Kinzer: Yeah.

Jennia: And yet so many people go through it. So then there's that feeling of isolation, though, too, and you feel like it's not being addressed. And I think we see this a lot in romance now where we're seeing more of these types of conversations come up. Because I think that when you didn't have those included in the romance genre, it was easy to feel like you were excluded from ever being in that sort of main character position because this had happened to you, or you looked like this, or this is what your life was. And then you didn't see that reflected within that sort of female main character that was presented over and over again. But now you do.

Becca Kinzer: Yeah. So I'm glad it's out there more. And I think it's also what I like having it in this type of story is, like, it doesn't have to be a heavy, depressing story to talk about it. And I think—maybe because I'm a nurse—I always walk that balance, too, of things are hard and tough and you're going through something terrible. But there's always that hope and boy, that sense of humor. Like you need that. You need that lightheartedness at times to help you walk through the heavy things.

Jennia: No, for sure. So how do you think that the writing process, or maybe even the type of research you did, might have differed if you'd used a different trope or if maybe the hard conversations were around something that wasn't quite as hard.

Becca Kinzer: I think this one took a lot more rewrites to find that balance. Because usually, like, just starting my next story is, how do I come up with the playful scenarios? And it's more like, "What are those romcom tropes?" is usually where I start. Whereas kind of like we've already discussed, the second chance, it's a little different than some of those other enemies to lovers or, you know, writing for this one, obviously, there's not going to be, like, a meet-cute because they already—

Jennia: Right (laughs).

Becca Kinzer: —they already know each other and she's not happy (laughs) to meet him again. So, I think, yeah, this one required more rewrites, more drafts than I've had to do so far with any of my other stories to find the balance.

Jennia: Did you also rely on early readers or even, maybe, sensitivity readers to go over maybe not the whole book, but some sections, at least?

Becca Kinzer: One of the very early drafts, a good writing friend, Ted, read, and she had gone through some of these issues. And so she kindly pointed out, like, "You know, that's actually not how I look at that situation." And it just, "Okay, good to know." And it was very important, I think, to have the sensitivity reader who wasn't offended—

Jennia: Right.

Becca Kinzer: —was just pointing out. And the same thing for the other woman I had talked to. We met at a writers' conference, and we were sitting next to each other with lunch. And when she shared her personal story—you know, there's certain topics like infertility and adoption and things that if you haven't walked through, you're trying to say kind things or the right things. And they're like, "Nope, that actually, that doesn't help." (both laugh)

Jennia: Yes.

Becca Kinzer: And so just, yeah, being more aware of, "Okay, like, yeah, maybe don't phrase it that way." But again, another friend who has gone through miscarriage, she read the book and afterward, she's like, "This is one of those things that every woman's story is gonna be a little different," and yeah. She found things relatable, but she's like, "Someone who maybe is at a different stage of that grieving process or still walking through it, it may not be the right book for them at that time." So, I mean, it's one of those, I write it from, like, I'm coming from the best place I can. I'm trying to provide a hopeful, ultimately encouraging story. And eventually, though, you just have to—You put it out there and hope that the readers take the right things from it.

Jennia: Right. I mean, I think that's true for pretty much anything we write, even if it's just as simple as a blog post or a Facebook update (both laugh).

Becca Kinzer: Yes.

Jennia: So what part do these events play in each character's journey, both in terms of their internal growth and then also in being able to open themselves up to loving again?

Becca Kinzer: Gracie's character is—she's struggling with forgiveness and her faith. Like, this is a journey of really her realizing that she's pushed good things away with bad things. And kind of having to come to terms with, like, "I can't push away God and the blessings and things just because I want to push away the grief." And Noah, I think he is more coming to terms with how he could have handled things differently, fighting a little bit harder for his marriage. Like, he realizes a little too late, "Oh, I should have"—

Jennia: Yes! (laughs)

Becca Kinzer: —"should have fought a little harder five years ago." But also there's a lot of things that he hasn't opened up to her about that he's kind of pushed down from years ago. Family dynamics and issues that he never really dealt with. And so it's like in order to heal his marriage, he also has to bring things from his own past to the surface and reconcile with that before now he's ready to really reconcile with his wife.

Jennia: Yeah, it's always so interesting to see how that all intertwines and how those wounds that are formed in the past, how they affect those other relationships and just even how they look at the world and how they respond to other people and how they respond to themselves. And then being able to see them work through that before they get together all happy at the end.

Becca Kinzer: Mhm, exactly.

Jennia: So you brought up, also, that this has some faith in it. And I want to talk to you about how you worked that in and how you also made that part of their journey.

Becca Kinzer: Right. I mean, I write for a Christian publisher, Tyndale, and faith is a big part of my life. So that's another element that writing the romcom we've talked about of like, "How do I work in a faith thread?" (Jennia laughs) And sometimes, should I even work in a faith thread? Like, with my very first book. That one's just a very lighthearted, fun mistaken identity. And it was, like, further in the book, all of a sudden she has, like, a come-to-Jesus moment. And my editors are like, "That's just kind of weird"—(both laugh)—"Like, I mean, we love where you're coming from!" But they're like, "It does not fit." You know, you gotta figure out if the whole story's gonna have that faith thread through it. You can't just bring it in chapter 42. And I was like, "Okay! Well, I was just kind of doing what I thought I was supposed to do because, you know, you guys publish Bibles, I don't know!"

Jennia: Right! (laughs)

Becca Kinzer: So with this one, because it did cover heavier tones, I mean, it felt more organic. I think that's the most important part, is having it come through organically. So I knew Gracie was going to have to really figure things out with her heart and where she stood with God in order to help reconcile with Noah.

Jennia: Well, do you have any tips on how to know when something is happening organically or that it is an organic feel to that story? Because I think that's one of those bits of advice that is so, so good to follow, but we might not always recognize it when it's happening or when it's not happening.

Becca Kinzer: Right. So, kind of going off the advice my editors had given me is, it's got to be there from the start. Like, if you're gonna have a character who maybe just has thoughts of prayers or different things, like, they gotta be doing that at the beginning. It can't just be all of a sudden at the end they're, you know, doing a Hail Mary prayer . . . I mean, it's a good question. How do you do it organically? I think it's part of the editing process. My stories typically—I mean, they're pretty shallow (laughs) the first draft, and it's like each one I do is when I can start adding depths and layers, and then go back in and like, "How do I show that she's having this struggle with her faith or with things at the beginning, then kind of work it in there?" So I think it just is part of the editing-revision process, and sometimes you don't even pick up on certain themes until you've gone through it a few times.

Jennia: Yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. And was there anything that your editors brought up, though, that was maybe surprising or advice that they had on maybe how to cover some of these topics, or how to better integrate them and have that balance?

Becca Kinzer: One of the earlier drafts, like, draft 457—

Jennia: (laughs) That's every draft, yes.

Becca Kinzer: —yeah—had this character who was kind of a mysterious, angelic being, and kind of played a heavier aspect. And so when we had the editorial call, they're like, "I just don't know about this"—(both laugh)—"I think you've got enough other elements in the story with them working on the book project and their marriage and different things. Like, I don't think we need Clarence-type angel from It's a Wonderful Life, like, showing up on the pages later." So that took a few of the faith elements out of it, but it, again, kind of smoothed it out and made so that when there was that faith thread, it felt more believable than, you know, an angel eating popcorn, you know?

Jennia: (laughs) That does seem a little more whimsical than necessarily—(laughs).

Becca Kinzer: Yeah.

Jennia: So we talked about this a little bit, but did you think at all about the expectations that readers might have from a romance when you were going through the plot, or maybe during some of those edits and revisions?

Becca Kinzer: Well, I think because I write romantic comedy, I'm very aware of the humor aspect. And since this is my third one, I feel like I'm starting to get to having that brand of, "This is what I expect when I pick up a Becca Kinzer novel." And so it was more keeping like, I want the humor in there and the banter. And my first two books, I mean, they do have a few of those serious—not real heavy serious, but a little touch of that. So I'm hoping with this story, it's like they'll recognize those serious elements. They just happen to go a little bit deeper this time. But the humor's still there. You asked about the romance, so what I have learned on that one, I went too much focus on the humor part. And they're like, "We need the romance. Like, we felt like we got cheated"—

Jennia: Ahhh.

Becca Kinzer: —"You kind of glossed over some of the romance!" And so it was a good reminder of, "Of course!" Like, that's why I pick up a romance or a romcom is because I want that romance. I want those—

Jennia: Oh exactly!

Becca Kinzer: —comedy and romance, put them together. So I needed that reminder for my next story. With this book, I just—I love having characters together. And I tried putting them in the same house because I'm like, "I want them really close together." And that was when my editors were like, "Well, you already put your characters in the same house for Dear Henry, Love Edith," they had me move them out to the cottage. Like, there's a little cottage right next to the house. But I'm like, I want them together as much as possible because that's what I love about a romance is seeing—

Jennia: Right.

Becca Kinzer: —them together. So, yeah, I guess that's what I've had to remember for my next book is, I need them together more (Jennia laughs) in scenes. Even if they're fighting or pushing each other away, they're together.

Jennia: Right. Yeah. Because I'm not asked for that tension too. And because, again, we always know that they're going to get together, but it's just that, "But how?" And how are they going to overcome these things? And how are they going to get over the misunderstandings? And what will be that key moment that shows both of them, yes, we should be together after all, despite this, this and this?

Becca Kinzer: Yes.

Jennia: Which isn't possible without those little moments. So yeah.

Becca Kinzer: Right. Yeah. Well, that one writing coach, she was like, "You need to put your characters on dates. Like, even if they're not official dates, they need to have, like, a first date where they have those conversations." So that's one thing I try to keep in mind of, even if it's just a walk, like, they're going for a walk. It's not technically a date, kind of think of it as a date of, how can I give my characters these little dates throughout the story? Because that's what readers—they love that stuff.

Jennia: That is such a good idea. Do you have any other examples of how you've used that? Maybe not even just in this book, but in other books you've written?

Becca Kinzer: Well, in this one I do—It's not a date, but they go out together. I think they're, like, going to the animal shelter and they pick up a sandwich and on the way home they're parked and eating their sandwich, and they talk about their first date and some of their earlier dates. So even though they're not on a date in the scene, it's like they're talking about that early love and kind of reminiscing about that time. And it's one of my favorite scenes.

Jennia: That does sound really sweet. Yeah, I love the idea of non-date dates. It's just (laughs) because you still sometimes get that atmosphere of it or those feelings of connection where you can see the potential for romance even if you haven't really acknowledged even to yourself that that's possible yet.

Becca Kinzer: Yes.

Jennia: So what advice do you have for romance authors who'd like to include sensitive topics in their own stories, but they haven't yet felt like they've been able to do that or to do it successfully?

Becca Kinzer: I would read up about it. Memoirs are a great place to start. And I think it is important, especially, like, in the story, if you haven't experienced it yourself, those sensitivity readers and those early on. But I think have the courage to do it. You're a writer, and if you feel a desire to tell a certain topic, I feel like it's probably placed there for a reason. So I would explore it and talk to those who have walked through it and then go for it. Like we said earlier, yeah, you're never going to please everybody and write the absolute perfect story that captures every single reader's experience.

Jennia: Mhm.

Becca Kinzer: But I think you just tell it the best way you can and don't feel like you have to shy away from certain topics. But then I think the heavier you go, then the more you got to figure out how to lighten it. Like, to have, "How do I keep some lightheartedness in it to help balance?" Otherwise you're just gonna have a really depressing book (laughs).

Jennia: Yes! And it will no longer be a romcom (laughs).

Becca Kinzer: Yeah (laughs).

Jennia: Were there ever times when you were writing where you did struggle with something like that and then you had to find a way to get over that?

Becca Kinzer: I prefer to write the lighthearted stuff. Like, that's what I would love to do, dialogue and banter. And I wrote just from the best place I could, presented it to my editors, and kind of went off their feedback. There was one scene I was just like, "I don't know, I don't know, it gets kind of heavy." But they loved it. They're like, "No, don't change anything about this. Keep this part." And so I had gone off their feedback, and also just realizing my strengths and weaknesses. I'm always going to prefer the lighthearted stuff, but when we get through the editing process and those other aspects are there, I always feel way more confident about the story. Like, when it's going out to readers, I'm glad it has those deeper parts because I know it tells a better story.

Jennia: Well said. Well, thank you again! And how can listeners best find out more about you and all of your books?

Becca Kinzer: You can always sign up for my newsletter if you go to beccakinzer.com. I send a few free stories and usually about once a month I do a book giveaway and try to make it worth the while because I know we all get hit with a lot of emails (both laugh). And then as far as—my favorite social media spot is Instagram because I love seeing all the books, BookTok, and book covers. So those are the two best places to stay in contact with me.

Jennia: Well, thank you again and thank you for making this wonderful conversation possible!

Becca Kinzer: Oh I'm glad to be here! Thank you.

Jennia: Thank you for listening, and then be sure to check out this show notes for additional information, including all of Becca's links! And then please join me next week when Sara Winokur will be here to share how to make science accessible when you're writing fiction. Thanks again!