333. How to Write Romance with Opposing Characters with Jenelle Hovde

Author Jenelle Hovde chats about writing enemies-to-lovers romances, creating believable characters, and balancing sparks with a healthy relationship.

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https://jenellehovdeauthor.com/

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https://jenellehovdeauthor.com/books/

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Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. Any well-written romance needs some type of tension that keeps the characters apart. And one method of creating that tension is to give your two main characters opposing goals. But how do you use this to bring your characters together instead of driving them apart? Author Jenelle Hovde is here to share how she did this in her latest release, No Stone Unturned.

Jennia: Well, first, it's lovely to have you here!

Jenelle Hovde: Oh, well thank you for having me!

Jennia: Yeah! And then just to jump right into today's topic or theme, can you tell us a little bit about each of your main characters in No Stoned Unturned? And also how their goals put them at odds with one another?

Jenelle Hovde: Oh, absolutely. Well, No Stone Unturned is actually a Regency romance that takes place in 1811. It's a little bit unconventional. I tend to be a little bit unconventional myself (laughs), so—

Jennia: Perfect!

Jenelle Hovde: —there's a little bit of myself and Bridget. But she is a vicar's daughter who longs for so much more. She's in a sleepy little village, and she's a spinster. She's given up on marriage. And she longs to break into the world of antiquities. And all throughout England, there were artifacts from all the way back to ancient Rome. And she found a coin when she was a child with her brother and it just lit a fire in her. But being a vicar's daughter and bound by Regency rules, it's really hard to do what you want to do.

Jennia: Yeah.

Jenelle Hovde: And her best friend—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —lives on a farm, and the father discovers something one day when he's plowing the field. And it's magnificent. It's going to rock the entire world. In fact, it's based on true history—

Jennia: Oh!

Jenelle Hovde: —There was a farmer named George Tupper who was plowing in a field, and he discovers the ruins of an ancient Roman community. And it was gigantic. So mine is based on the real history, but with some twists and some creative direction (laughs). And she sees this is her chance to make her name known and to find some deeper purpose than just living in a small provincial town and not really having much to do other than support her father and his ministry. He's a vicar. As she goes on and writes articles—and she's an illustrator, she's trying to illustrate what she finds. At the same time, a man returns to the neighboring estate right opposite of her friend's field—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —And his name is Captain Rafe Hawthorne. And he's a wounded captain. He's just finished combat with Napoleon. And he has to take over his uncle's estate. But he doesn't want to return home at all. He has some terrible memories of that estate. In fact, he fled it when he was a very young boy with his mother. And he spent his whole life repressing those memories. And so as he goes home, he's got a ticking time clock. Because the Crown says, "Your estate is in such shambles, we're going to take it from you. You've got to show us a clear plan of action or we're gonna give it to somebody else." And so he decides to plant orchards and start a brewery. However, there's Bridget standing in his way (Jennia laughs) because she knows something is amazing hiding under the field. And to make matters worse, her brother, who's also very unconventional like her, was getting pressed to fight in the Royal Navy and started a mini-insurrection. And he's now in a hulk, a floating Regency prison. And so she's desperate to make some money (laughs) and to help her brother and to help her friend, who's also struggling. So the two of them now have a land dispute. Who owns this land and what is exactly under it? And Rafe wants to keep his past secret. But the more Bridget digs, the more things she uncovers that are actually directly related to his family—

Jennia: Yeah, digging in more ways than one. Right (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: Very much so. So that's the title: No Stone Unturned. And Bridget longs to be seen. She longs to have her name out there and to make a life. And Rafe wants the same thing. They're just at opposite goals. They both want to take care of the villagers and provide for them, but they have very different viewpoints. So she is sassy (Jennia laughs). He's a bit gruff and taciturn (laughs).

Jennia: Oh that's my favorite combination! (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: Oh mine too! And like any couple, you know, it starts as enemies to lovers—you know, in this type of genre. And then it grows to mutual respect. And then it comes to a very wonderful love story, slow burn with all the intensity. Because the more that she discovers, the more other bad players start to take notice. And Rafe's protective nature, too, is gonna come into play. And how do they navigate that? So it was a lot of fun to write. Even though there's some heavier themes in it. It is a little more lighthearted, too, as a Regency.

Jennia: Oh yes! Well, so—and this is pretty clear even just from the summary you just gave us about they each have these pressing needs for why they have to do what they're doing. But why do you think it's important for readers to see the reasoning on both sides so that one character isn't presented as being right or having a better goal versus the other?

Jenelle Hovde: I think it's important because that shows reality. You don't want to have a Mary Sue character that is completely perfect. I think more readers are going to relate to human brokenness and growth arcs. And if you have two characters that are wrestling with maybe core wounds that haven't been resolved, you get to see them go through that and root for them. And it just makes that final get together all the more sweeter because you can see how they start to sacrifice. And there's nothing wrong with having goals and desires and needs, but there's something beautiful in romance when you do learn to also love somebody else and put their needs as important as well. And that sacrificial arc really makes it all the more satisfying for readers.

Jennia: I completely agree. And I was just thinking about how you do see opposing goals so very often with enemies to lovers, primarily because they are fighting for either the same thing where only one of them can have it, or they are going to be on opposite sides for whatever reason. But yeah, I think that explanation plays such a huge part in it because otherwise it's too easy to dismiss it and say, "Well, just give up whatever it is you're aspiring for or toward." (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: Right.

Jennia: Or, "But you're wrong!"

Jenelle Hovde: You're so right on that. Like marriage. Even for those of us that are blessed with a good marriage, marriage is hard work. I was telling my teen girls this as they're navigating female friendships at age 16 and 14. "Hey, friendships are hard work" (both laugh). And there's a give and take. You don't want to lose yourself in a relationship where you're just giving and giving and you're no longer a real person. At the same time, we don't want to be takers, where we're taking and taking and leave the other person completely drained. And so there's always that tension and that dynamic of give and take, give and take. And my goal in romance is how healthy can I make it? I love sparks. I want to see stuff flash and be fun. I'm a clean romance writer, for the record, and I love that sizzle tension, but I also want it to be healthy for women.

Jennia: Yes! Speaking of that romantic spark, how did you make it clear to the readers that these two belonged together romantically, despite having these differences? And then also, how soon did you introduce that? (both laugh)

Jenelle Hovde: Well, when you have two strong-willed characters, there's always a risk of making them unlikable (laughs). So you have to tread carefully. I think that authors have to put in beautiful sparks of understanding and giving. So Bridget sees Rafe doing something wonderful for one of the tenants. She's blind. And she sees him reach out in compassion, and it challenges her thought that this guy is a tough man. He's actually quite tender. And the more she learns about his story because it's been kind of hush hush and secretive, she begins to have an understanding that he's gone through some terrible things that have shaped who he is. And she's actually the one that encourages him, "Go examine the past"—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —"so that we can learn and have healing and understand the future." And, of course, he's pragmatic and he's like, "I don't want to talk." You know, hide it, hide it (both laugh).

Jennia: Right.

Jenelle Hovde: So those little moments where she starts to see him act in compassion, challenges her viewpoints of him. And in vice versa, being a vicar's daughter, she has put in that role of helping others and serving and he sees her doing that as well. And suddenly it's like, "Okay, this is a very strong woman, but this is a very likable woman who has earned the respect of the village. And maybe I need to check my opinion on her." And that's, I think, how you keep it growing. You give a few steps forward in fiction and then you give a few steps back where they kind of fall back into their core wound.

Jennia: Right.

Jenelle Hovde: And maybe that not so healthy way of fixing things until you get to the dark night of the soul moment where all hope is lost. But that relationship has been slowly building, getting closer, getting closer, maybe coming a little apart, getting closer. Dark night to the soul. All hope is lost. What are you gonna do? You know, you have to answer that question for your characters and how they'll resolve it.

Jennia: I always think that's so powerful when they have to challenge their own assumptions that they've made. That's exactly why it's so easy for them to take those few steps back because they've had this glimpse into what this person might really be like. But they don't know for sure yet. It's more just they're on that little teeter totter of, well, maybe they are really this way. Maybe they're not the way I first assumed that they were. And so it's almost like that internal battle with how they're going to describe this person or see them. And so, yeah, I think that just makes it so much easier for there to still just be like, "Well, maybe I was wrong about that other assumption. Maybe I actually was correct when I first decided that they were gruff or unlikable or lacked compassion."

Jenelle Hovde: Right. And you can see it in the classics, too, like Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice with Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy. He's kind of awkward—

Jennia: Yeah! (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: —and he's kind cool. And eventually she realizes this is a man of deep passion. And I loved how Jane Austen contrasted Darcy's—you know, his coldness, his severity with Wickham. Wickham is glowing. He's the golden boy. Everybody loves him at first . . . until the mask falls off and then we see who Wickham really is. It's such a great foil. And then Elizabeth, of course, realizes she has something really precious and he sacrifices for her. He goes after Wickham and the lost sister and saves that family's reputation, which would have destroyed them. So he actually puts himself on the line to be sacrificial—

Jennia: Yeah.

Jenelle Hovde: —and you can see through the book, and even through the movies, each of those steps that he takes to win her over and how their opinions change. It's so beautiful. And then when you get to that moment, that's the "dark night of the soul" moment, when she realizes her family is going to be obliterated. He steps in and, "I love you the way that you are." I think that's what's so key about romance, is we can't make ourselves perfect to be loved. We have warts. We're all flawed. But we want someone who says, "I'm not here to change you, but I'm here to walk with you through this journey and I'm going to love you and I'm going to stay with you," yeah (laugh).

Jennia: Yes! (laughs) I just want to quote that and just have it pinned up on my wall because that was so perfectly said.

Jenelle Hovde: Aww. We're all hungry for love. And I think when authors do that—like, pull from your experiences in life, pull from what you observe—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —it's going to make those fictional characters so much richer and deeper. And everyone has experiences that they can draw on.

Jennia: And it's saying that message that you're already deserving of love, that you don't have to change who you are or be physically different in some way. Or compromise yourself to the point that you are giving up a goal or a dream or an integral part of your personality in order to better shape yourself into someone who is, you know, quote unquote "lovable." Which, I have to say it since no one can see me using finger quotes but yeah!

Jenelle Hovde: (both laugh) Yeah, that's powerful. And we need that message for young women. You know, Bridget is driven by the desire to prove herself by what she does. I think about in the real world, women are driven to prove themselves by accomplishments or looks. But to have someone come into your life, whether it's a parent, a friend, or significant other, and say, "I love you as you are," it's so healing and powerful. You don't ever want to let that go once you taste it.

Jennia: Yep! So you talked about this a little bit, but other types of conflict and tension, what did you add to the story so that it didn't revolve around just this conflicting of goals? Just also even to stop that from feeling repetitive?

Jenelle Hovde: Right. Well, that's really important. I think every writer has to ask some important questions about conflict. So, first of all, just with literary analysis—is a conflict: man versus man, other [versus] other people? Conflict: man versus himself?

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: Man versus the supernatural? Like, for example, Stephen King. Or man versus nature? So you can decide what conflict you want in your book. Even if you're writing a romance. We can think of Twister, for example, with nature. I think even Stephen King's stuff is man against himself. Like, the psychology of overcoming fear and fighting the darkness. And, of course, like different regencies with Jane Austen, it's man against others, going against society's expectations.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: So once you figure out what you want for your romance—because there's many different types. There's thrillers, there's romcoms. But they all have to have one of those in them, I think, to make it extra rich. And then you have to decide what is the conflict between the two protagonists? What is the core wound my character has gone through? What is their greatest fear? Am I afraid of abandonment?

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: And then how that clashes. And then I would still do this for the villain (both laugh). I have a lot of character sheets when I write! So what is your villain's core fear? What is their core need? And how are they going to stand in the way of the protagonist?

Jennia: Ah, yeah.

Jenelle Hovde: —Now, you don't need to have a terrible villain. It doesn't need to be like Iron Man and Ultron. It could be just simply the bossy woman in the village who's gossiping. You get to decide what kind of antagonist you're going to put in the book. But how are they standing in the way? Do they want the same thing as the hero or do they want something completely different, but they're blocking the hero? So I have a secret society in mine, a couple different societies that come in, and Bridget's got to manage all of these men who are looking at this amazing find thinking, how can I capitalize on it? (laughs) And you can bring in all kinds of tension. And then there's some surprise villains that have a twist at the end that you don't see coming. Then you get to play with that as an author and see what works. I think as long as it's natural and believable, that's the key thing. Have fun. By all means, break some rules, but try to keep it as much to real life as possible. And I've actually been a pastor's wife in a small town and I know how gossip can go (laughs). How everyone's in your business and how uncomfortable that can be. So some of that that I wrote, I drew from actual real-life experiences. I always would tell writers, don't be afraid to use the pain that you've gone through.

Jennia: Oh my gosh, yes! Because some of those, too—when we hear, for instance, the woman who's spreading gossip, it might not seem like it's that terrible or that it would be that hurtful to people. But, yeah, when you're able to show that on the page and everything that entails and how it hits each person emotionally, but not just how it affects them in that way, but even how it affects maybe some of their life circumstances or pulls friends away from them or something similar. And when you see all those ripple effects, yeah, you get that better picture of exactly why this person is not necessarily the villain, but why it's another obstacle that this person has in their life.

Jenelle Hovde: Right. And I think that's like doing character sheets for your secondary characters. What are their desires? What are their goals? How does it interact with your main character? Are they gonna come and support? Are they going to maybe gently hinder? You don't need big villains.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: You can just have a lot of everyday conflict. And we all have conflict every day. You know, when we drive to traffic and someone cuts us off. Then we walk into the office and our boss wants to talk with us. Then we get a call from the school (both laugh). However it goes—moms can fill in the blank there—but that's what readers love because they will see themselves in the fiction and like, "Oh, yeah, I've been there. I know what she's feeling."

Jennia: Oh yes! I felt anxious just listening to that (both laugh).

Jenelle Hovde: Right!

Jennia: No, I'm glad you brought that up, too, and even with secondary characters and that you are making character sheets because that's really what makes them feel like they're alive and that they are part of the story. And it's not just this little paper doll cut out. "Here I am, best friend with my three traits that I will follow and consistently use throughout. And never branch off or show any nuance or complexity at all." Because, yeah, you need history. They need to have a backstory. They also need that GMC. They don't just exist.

Jenelle Hovde: I love that so much! I had advice given from one of my favorite authors. Her name was Anne Elisabeth Stengl. She wrote beautiful fantasy. And she had mentioned to me the idea of doing—

Jennia: Ahh.

Jenelle Hovde: —deep dives into each character. So I gotta give her credit for it.

Jennia: Yeah (laughs).

Jenelle Hovde: But I used to be a pantser. And for those who don't know that term, it means I would just get an idea and I would just start writing and have fun with it. But I would always put myself in a corner, and then I wouldn't know how to rescue myself. So she sat down with me and she said, "I think you might be a planner, and here's why" (both laugh). So I could do the character sheets for each character, and then I would outline the novel chapter by chapter. So I could see where all the romantic beats were coming. I could plan for the tension, the betrayals. So there's a bit of a mystery. So I had a different thread to think about—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —and how the mystery would resolve with these two characters. The more they dig, the more they discover. And it ties directly to Rafe's past. So that's kind of how I got over recycling the same scenes over and over and giving a little more depth to them than just the romance. And I think that is some of the most powerful advice. It's not for everyone, so it's not to pressure any author to do that. But if you're struggling, then I highly recommend doing a big outline. Just take time and get to know your characters. Interview them if you have to—

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: —to figure out who they are and let them speak to you. And magic happens that way.

Jennia: Yeah. I think it was on T.I. Lowe's episode where she was saying that she does journal entries for each of them. And I can see that really helping, just getting into their psyche and seeing what their voice even is like, so that it helps you create those distinct voices for each person in addition to really getting into their head and seeing what's driving them and what's holding them back.

Jenelle Hovde: Right, right. And that, unfortunately, takes time.

Jennia: Yes! (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: It takes time (laughs).

Jennia: Sorry, there are no easy answers here today (laughs).

Jenelle Hovde: There are none. I love psychology because I've used it quite a bit. I used to be an audiologist—

Jennia: Ah!

Jenelle Hovde: —and I would counsel families where they would find out a child was born deaf and they would go through the stages of grief. And then later, my husband being in ministry, we do a lot of counseling. We worked with a lot of women who had been abused. A lot of marital counseling. And the one thing I think that has really help[ed] writing is diving into psychology.

Jennia: Yes.

Jenelle Hovde: And I encourage authors, go find all the YouTubes. Do your dishes, mow the grass, and listen to a psychology podcast. And you're gonna get so much material for developing even, like, a simple romance. The core wounds. And how do we respond to one another when we're upset? I saw something that was just incredible and I actually shared it with a woman this weekend. We were talking about marriage.

Jennia: Mhm.

Jenelle Hovde: And I can't take credit, so I'm gonna quote it (Jennia laughs). Dr. Caroline Lee, her stress languages. You can follow her on Instagram. And I thought, this is gold for romance writers—or any kind of writer. “So if you have a problem with something, are you a fixer? Do you not feel safe until there's a solution?” So she wrote this. I thought, "Oh, that's good. That's me."

Jennia: Mhm (laughs).

Jenelle Hovde: “Are you a freezer? When everything is too much, you shut down. Maybe you go into the internet or you go away to a safe place and it's your safety response.” We can put this into our characters. “Are you the fighter?” So I'm part Irish too (Jennia laughs). I kind of chuckled when I saw that. I am not a fighter. But we have family who are. We love each other. We learn to work through it. It's to feel safe. You know, even though they're in conflict, their immediate reaction is like, "Waaa, strength!" “Are you the fleer? I disappear so I don't have to deal with it." Escape and, again, delaying hard conversations. Kind of like the freezer. “Are you the pleaser?” This is me too. "I want to make everyone happy and then I will feel okay." And it's just choosing safety over authenticity. I love that. Oh, and then the suppressor. This would be Rafe, my lead.

Jennia: That goes along with how you described him, yep (laughs).

Jenelle Hovde: Yep. “If I don't think about it and I don't feel it, I can survive it. Never cries in front of anyone. Strength means silence.” And so when you do that deep dive psychologically with your characters, now you have real conflict. Now you can picture the scenes where like, "Oh, these two personalities are going to clash."

Jennia: Right!

Jenelle Hovde: And I love it.

Jennia: And it goes back to that whole misunderstanding thing, too, because, again, when we have that limited view of a person and they do something like freeze or flee or try to suggest a solution, you can see how someone who has an opposite approach might misinterpret that reaction. Which, again, leads to more tension and more stepping together and stepping back.

Jenelle Hovde: Right. And you get to do the dance with your couple as they navigate those feelings. Because that's how we do it in real life too. I have some friends that are very outspoken. They are my best friends right now after 17 years. And I'm very soft and quiet. And it takes a lot to speak out. Yet they encouraged me. They're like, "Just say it, Jenelle! Just reveal what you're really thinking." I love that. But when I first met those friends, because of my personality, I was like, "I'm just gonna hold back. I'm just gonna see how it goes." These women have forced me to grow the most—

Jennia: Yeah.

Jenelle Hovde: —as a person. And I love them. And they're like my sisters, we'll be friends forever. And I appreciate that—that growth that they've given me. And I think with romance, we can show our characters helping each other grow to get to the next level while still loving you. Flaws and all.

Jennia: Yep. Well said. Well, so what was the most difficult part for you about crafting a story where the characters need to fall in love by the end, but are at odds with one another when the story starts?

Jenelle Hovde: Yeah. That is timing. And I'm long winded, so having a word count is such a gift (both laugh). And I knew—this is where planning really helped give me freedom, because I knew at chapter so and so he was going to have to show her grace. He was gonna have to start sacrificing, and I had to build up to that. So I think for me, pre-planning really helps that. I think what was hardest for me was that I had never before written about a man who'd had been abused. I've done it with women. That was a little bit trickier because men—

Jennia: Mmm, right.

Jenelle Hovde: —do express things differently. And I wanted it to read authentically male. So I had some male readers read it and get back to me and love their response. Yeah, but having the plan allows you to see your action beats, it allows you to see the growth. Because if you have this long section where they're just fighting, fighting, fighting, and there's no coming together, you can see it in the outline. You're like, "Okay, by the time I get to the romance, it won't feel believable"—

Jennia: Right.

Jenelle Hovde: —"So I have to foreshadow." So it's really like a mystery in a sense.

Jennia: Yeah. It works well with the dance comparison. Right? So you think about someone waltzing. Well, if they just keep waltzing in one direction and they're up against the wall, no, we need to keep bringing you back into the middle of the room. Not too far one way or the other.

Jenelle Hovde: Yeah! And cozy mystery, same thing. You have to do enough foreshadowing. Yeah, you do have to keep a twist at the end for your reader so they don't see the villain coming. But you do have to do some building blocks so that by the time the mystery is solved, it feels believable.

Jennia: Yes!

Jenelle Hovde: And I think romance might be a tiny bit more on the nose than mysteries, but the stakes are also increasing. So if you have a mystery going along with your romance, the danger on the outside is increasing and putting more and more pressure on them. And I think that's how you can get them to keep turning the pages.

Jennia: Ahh, I agree. Yep. Well, so what parting advice do you have for authors who'd like to use this method when they're writing a romance? If you had to just boil it down to one thing? (laughs)

Jenelle Hovde: Boiled down to one thing . . . Don't be afraid to take risks. Just go for it. And consider your couple and what are their core wounds and how they're gonna grow. And don't be afraid to take some risks.

Jennia: That is great advice. I really think that advice applies to everyone listening, even if you're not thinking about using this.

Jenelle Hovde: Oh good!

Jennia: Yes! (laughs) That's another one that should be quoted and just pinned up on the wall!

Jenelle Hovde: Awww! (laughs)

Jennia: All right, well, thank you again!

Jenelle Hovde: Well, thank you so much!

Jennia: And thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information, including all of Jenelle's links. And then please join me next week when my good friend, author Daniel Braum, will join us as we discuss how to use setting as your story's structure. Thanks again!