340. Finding Your Inner Creativity with Laura Munson

Author and teacher Laura Munson talks about her book, The Wild Why, how everyone can be creative, and why wonder is the key to your writing.

▬

Check out Laura's website:
https://lauramunson.com/

Grab a copy of her books:
https://lauramunson.com/books/

Visit Laura's socials:
https://www.facebook.com/lauramunsonauthor/
https://www.instagram.com/lauramunsonauthor/

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. As anyone within the writing community could probably tell you, it's not uncommon to find ourselves doubting our creativity. But author Laura Munson is here to share the reassuring news that we're all creative. And we'll also be talking about how to find your wild why, why you should want to, and why wonder is at the heart of it all.

Jennia: Well, thank you so much for being here, Laura!

Laura Munson: Thank you, Jennia! I'm so happy to be here.

Jennia: Since "wonder" is going to be a key point and something we keep referring to, I'd like to have you start us off by explaining exactly what wonder is and maybe even what it isn't.

Laura Munson: Nothing I'd rather talk about. You know, I've landed on the word "wonder" as being central to what I care about as not just a writer, but a writing teacher, a retreat leader, and somebody who's also a professional editor. Because I hear over and over again these three things: "I'm not creative," "I don't have a voice," and "I'm stuck." And these are people who are talking about wanting to write or actually trying to write—trying to live the writing life. But I'm also hearing this from people just out in the world. Like when I'm on the speaking circuit, I hear this constantly from people who say, "I've got a book in me," or "I would like to write," or blah, blah, blah. And then you just see the refusal. You see their whole, like, body language wilt. And they say that those three things. I'm not creative, I don't have a voice, and I'm stuck. And so I was walking around the woods one day—as one does in Montana (Jennia laughs) where they live—and I thought that word creativity is scary for people. And I think it's because with traditional education we get slotted as children.

Jennia: Yes!

Laura Munson: So you're a jock, or you're a brain, or you're pretty or you're whatever, you're artsy, which is to say you're creative. But the truth of it is, and I realized sitting on that—I was sitting on a stump, actually—(both laugh)

Jennia: So picturesque! (laughs)

Laura Munson: Right? What is behind the word "creativity"? Because that's what scares people. Of course you're creative. Everything you think is an act of creation. Everything we do, everything that—the way we dress, the way that we decorate our house. I mean, every single thing we do is an act of creation. That's just something that a child doesn't question—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —but we begin to question it the minute we're slotted. So I thought let's get rid of that word and what's behind it. And I thought, "Well, I think it's wonder." But then that's a big word too.

Jennia: Yes!

Laura Munson: So underneath wonder—What's behind wonder? And that's when I landed on curiosity and awe. And I think we're very heavy on curiosity in our culture, but very low on awe. And to me awe is what I'm after. Whether it's just the way I live, the way I write, the way I teach, all of it. Stopping and being in awe is something that is not just a silly frilly idea. I think our civilization depends on it, frankly.

Jennia: I can see that too. And I think you're exactly right, as I'm just thinking even about, not necessarily just myself and my daily life, but I was reading an article today and they were talking about that elimination of communal spaces, like reducing the number of benches and that sort of thing. And I think that, in a way, takes away from that feeling of awe and wonder because it doesn't allow you to just sit and reflect and take in what's happening around you and give you that space just to be with your own thoughts. And not just in your own thoughts in your own home, but from one setting to another—like having that stump to sit on.

Laura Munson: Yeah, I think that we're just very heavy on curiosity. Like, what makes a rainbow? And then suddenly we're like "Hey, Google what makes a rainbow?" Instead of actually looking at the rainbow, we're looking at a screen.

Jennia: Yes!

Laura Munson: I think it's crushing us in so many ways. And I'm not, listen, I don't have letters after my name. I'm not a wonderologist, but that's the point. Like, my book, The Wild Why, makes a case against credentials because it's in all of us. It's—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —In fact, the subtitle is "Stories and Teachings to Uncover Your Wonder” because I don't believe it ever dies, but I think it can come pretty close. And this book is really all about—It's about how to connect with your self-expression. And the word "authentic" is overused so it's sort of ruined. But, like, how to, like, find your pure and true self-expression the way that you can express yourself. Nobody else. Nobody can write like you, nobody can talk like you. Your ideas are your own. It's about, like, having the return, the uncovering, to something you already know that lives inside of you. But for some reason it gets squelched, and usually at a pretty young age. I work with a lot of educators at my "Haven Writing Retreats—and psychologists and people who do have letters after their name (laughs) in the subject. And they tell me that that inner critic that we all have—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —what gets in the way, I call her the inner critter, because why not be playful with her?

Jennia: (laughs) Yes, just make her a raccoon.

Laura Munson: The genesis of her—short of severe abuse—usually starts at around age 12, like sixth grade. I can teach people how to turn a phrase and twist a plot and have a fabulous command of the English language. But what I'm really doing as a teacher is to help people get their finger on the pulse of what's behind what they have to say. Because if you don't have that connection, your writing will never bridge to the reader. So—

Jennia: Yes, exactly.

Laura Munson: Yeah.

Jennia: And do you have any tips on how maybe a listener can do that since they aren't going to have that benefit of having someone to help guide them to putting the finger on the pulse of what it is?

Laura Munson: Part of the book The Wild Why is prescriptive. And so it falls into sort of a hybrid lane. I think New York Publishing calls it "the prescriptive memoir." I call it a teaching memoir because I like the word "teaching" better—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —So at the end of each chapter there is a section called "Your Wild Why." And in that section I call the reader to some sort of action, whether it's by moving their pen or just living in a certain way throughout a day or a month. Your wild why is different. So one of the things that I think is a great place to start is just with awareness. Awareness about how we speak to ourselves in our own minds—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —And most of us wouldn't speak to our worst enemies the way that we speak to ourselves in our own minds—

Jennia: So true.

Laura Munson: —And most of us aren't aware of it either. And so this is a simple exercise, but boy does it help you in the realm of self-awareness. And that is to just get a little teeny journal, you know, like those moleskines that you see in the airport—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —and tune in for one day of your life to how you feel physically.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: Especially like in mundane moments. Not like if you're, like, taking a run or hiking up a mountain, but let's say it's just something like doing the dishes. And tune into how you feel, and if you notice that you're holding your breath or if your shoulders are up to your ears, if you're sort of, like, hunched over, fetal, protecting your vital organs, tune into what's going on in your mind. And I can almost guarantee you that something inside of your mind is on full alarm. And basically it's like inner terrroorism. And so what I want people to do is write down the dialogue—or usually it's a monologue or a rant. What's going on in your mind in that moment where you don't feel good? What's going on? And I promise it's probably something very self-mean, self-terrorizing. And what I've learned is to find compassion for that voice.

Jennia: Ohh.

Laura Munson: Because she's just a scared child. And I used to fight her, I used to try to exile her, exorcise her. But I've learned along the way that I'm probably never going to get rid of her. So now look at her like she's just having a really bad nightmare. And when she's really, really mean, that simply means she's really, really scared. And so to get it out of your head, out of your body, and write it down so that you can look at it and say, "Do I really want to give the prime and sacred real estate of my mind to this voice? To this inner terrorism?" No, of course I don't. So you can just look at her like, "Oh, sweetheart, you're so scared and you're so tired of being so scared and so mean. Let's put you down for a nap." And then when you get playful with her and there's the wonder, then she quiets down. It works. But it starts with that self-awareness. And so I believe in the power of the pen because it gets it out of your head, out of your body, onto the page, so that you can actually choose in an empowered way what to do with that voice.

Jennia: Yeah, that's a good tip. And I've heard that from other people, too, or other resources even. Because otherwise, in a way, it's almost like you're just trying to keep stuffing it down and keep going along. Like with anything else we bottle up, that's not really going to do much for us in the long term. And I can see that getting in the way of your—if we just go by the traditional definition of creativity, even, because you have now all of these—as you said—these almost terrorist-like thoughts about ourselves battling against everything in the background because we haven't really addressed them.

Laura Munson: Yeah. And again, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I do believe that everything we really need to know in terms of, like, life force and wellbeing, we knew back in the sand box.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: You watch little kids and they aren't scrutinizing each other, especially like in a public playground space. They're just like, "Hey, you want to play?" And they're not thinking like, "My shovel is better than yours," or, "My bucket is prettier than yours." Like, that comes in later with greed and competition—That comes from the adult world. But little kids are all about connection and playfulness and what can we create? That's the most powerful question I can think. What can I create? And to go at your day with a certain level of childlike wonder, with that world of possibility, like butterflies in your stomach, what's gonna happen today? That's the way that I teach my students to approach their writing. Not something that you have to do, but something that you get to do.

Jennia: Yes. And I love how that last line really connected each of those terms. So just in that one sentence alone, I think we heard wonder, curiosity, and creativity. So it just made that relationship so nice and clear. Well, you've also said that wonder drives empathy. And I can see this a little bit with self-compassion, or, at least, self-empathy. But can you explain more of that connection and [how it] might be more outward reaching as well?

Laura Munson: Yes. I mean, this is critical for our civilization to continue. And it's been really interesting when you write a book—And for me it always takes me like a decade to write a book. And I'm usually writing a few books at the same time, so you'll hear me say it took me nine, 10 years to write a book, but then I've got another book coming out two years later. It's just because, I'm usually working on a few different books, and then it's like the one that comes after me, and this one came after me, like, "Write me!" And so I paid attention. So it's been interesting watching this book come alive across this country these last six weeks on book tour. And what I'm learning, especially in the Q&A after I read and then present the book—and oftentimes I'm with a conversation partner. The Q&As have been really illuminating for me because I'm seeing that this isn't this, like, kind of silly, playful, "If you have some spare time, you can think about wonder." It's critical.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: Because without wonder—by my definition, let's say curiosity and awe. Without curiosity and awe, how are we to really, truly have empathy? How are we to wonder what it's like to climb into somebody else's shoes—especially somebody who's quite different from ourselves—and walk around in those shoes? And without that yearning—it's not that we have to like it, it's not that we have to agree with it. But without being curious and even being willing to be in awe of somebody, especially if they're quite different from ourselves, then I don't know how we have a civilization.

Jennia: Yeah.

Laura Munson: And I see it on my writing retreats every single time. These are people who would not meet in their normal lives, whatever normal is, but in their daily habituated lives.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: But they are in the woods of Montana, suddenly climbing into empathy, and I mean radical empathy. And these are emotionally responsible adults. Not everybody is (laughs)—like, people are vetted, they get accepted into my program.

Jennia: Oh okay.

Laura Munson: But I want to apply this to everybody, that when you're buying broccoli in the grocery store and somebody says, "How are you?" You don't have to owe them every single truth about how you are

Jennia: Right.

Laura Munson: But it's important to be curious about one another. Especially when we find ourselves judging somebody for, oh, they must be very different from ourselves, therefore we must judge them or reject them. It's the opposite. And writers are curious by nature. So maybe this comes more easily to those who are writers in the first place because we are full of the need and want to be a student of the human being.

Jennia: Mmm. What would you say to someone who feels as if they've depleted their curiosity or, awe? Or at least they've momentarily depleted it?

Laura Munson: You've got it in you. You just have to make room for it. And you have to look at it like it's critical. Like, again, it's not this silly frilly idea.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: And it's as simple as slowing down. We live in a hustle culture. Go, go, go. Do, do, do. Prove, prove, prove. Achieve. Measuring sticks are all around us in every way, shape, and form. But we can find five minutes to sit down on that park bench, or on that front stoop, or on a stump if you're walking around Montana (laughs). But let's not have it be on your couch looking at Netflix. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. But let's have it be away from a screen. And let's have it be deliberate. So not, like, counting steps or watching an app. There's nothing wrong with any of those things. I'm not judging them, but I'm saying, can we get back to something that we knew as children? Which was simply like, "Wow, look at the sky! What makes the sky blue?" And just to actually be in the wonderment of it is so good for your well being and it's so accessible. We just don't know how to value it. So it begins with valuing something that we knew as—like, by our birthright, we knew it. We've just forgotten it. It's time to remember.

Jennia: I wonder if a lot of that is just because we attribute not a negative connotation, but a less serious connotation to anything that is linked to childhood or being childish. And since those words are used so often in relation to children, maybe that's why I want to say almost just as a culture as a whole, we've given them less importance than they actually deserve.

Laura Munson: I agree. You want to hear something sad? (laughs) So the first section of the book, the very first page—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —this is from my fourth grade journal. Fourth grade. What are we, like, nine years old? "I talk too much. I ask too many questions. I cry too easily. I laugh too loud. I'm too sensitive. And I'm not sure what that means. And I feel bad about all of it."

Jennia: Aww.

Laura Munson: Isn't that sad?

Jennia: It is!

Laura Munson: Actually, just to me, that shows this consciousness of a small child who wasn't conscious of her self-expression until somebody said somewhere along the line, "You talk too much. You're too loud, You're too sensitive," whatever that means.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: And then I chose to feel bad about all of it. But we don't come out that way. And if you see people who—you know, I've worked with a lot of people who are writing books about really severely difficult things that happen to them. Not everybody, but a lot of people who want to write, want to write because of something really hard that happened to them. And we're often really just talking about that wound. I call it the wonder wound.

Jennia: Ohh, okay.

Laura Munson: Where did it begin? Did everybody tell me I talked too much? And did everybody tell me that I was too sensitive? No. Maybe a teacher, maybe a member, maybe a friend on the playground. And I believed it. And so that's the work to do, is to get in touch with—like, track where that wounding began when it comes to your self-expression.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: And that's part of the book. The first, like, 100 pages of the book are me tracking my wonder. And I thought when I set out to write the book that it was gonna be a lot of fun to do that. And instead it was brutal.

Jennia: Ahh.

Laura Munson: It was, like, crushing to me because most of what I ended up writing about were the times where I thought there would be wonder. But then somehow the adult world failed me, or hurt me, or challenged me in a way that didn't feel safe.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: And so that's part of one of the "Your Wild Why" exercises in the book, is to track your relationship with wonder from as far back as you can remember. And not with your finger pointed out, trying to blame people and play victim. That's not what I'm interested in. It's about self-awareness. And once we start to become aware of that, then we can do something about it as the adults that we are

Jennia: So, speaking of "the wild why” is that something that remains static? Or could that wild why fluctuate over your lifespan? Or even within a shorter period of time?

Laura Munson: Well, I mean, it depends on what it means to you. I mean, that title woke me up in the middle of the night—and I'm not good at naming things. Like, I wasn't good at naming my two children (both laugh). I was—I've never been good. I mean, I'd rather write a novel than name it. But I was like, "I got to come up with just the right title for this that shows that there's whimsy in this book. That it's not prescriptive, but it offers a possibility," and it woke me up. "The Wild Why. And it begins with—the first paragraph after the fourth-grade journal is, "What happened when you asked why the sky is blue? If there is a God? Why people die? What makes a rainbow? Why you weren't being protected? Why you weren't being loved? Maybe you weren't taken seriously for your questions. Or maybe your elders considered your feral questions"—There's the wild—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —"an honor to answer. Maybe they linger to their answering, trying their best to illuminate your questions. Be honest with yourself. How were you treated for your questions?" And so, to answer your question, I would just bring in more questioning. Rainer Maria Rilke, the amazing poet and writer and thinker and mystic, said, "Love the questions themselves."

Jennia: Mmm.

Laura Munson: And if you haven't read Letters to a Young Poet, now's the time. Or reread it. Because he goes deeply into loving the questions. It's the question that begets the answer. But then once you think you have an answer, it just begets more questions. So that's another thing. If you're trying to write a book or an essay or a story, whatever it is, consider not the theme of it, but consider the question. And when you think of the question, now you've got an entry point. And that's why I think this title came to me, The Wild Why. Like, ask your questions and let them be feral.

Jennia: Yes! And I like that this also goes back to, again, a lot of these things that we usually attribute to childhood because you even hear parents jokingly apologize for "my wild children" or "my feral children." And so it's all these words that—not necessarily a negative connotation, but a connotation that is seen as—or words are seen as less than in terms of the types of descriptors we're using compared to a[n] adult or at least a socially acceptable adult. So I like that you were almost reclaiming them in a way and showing, no, they have that same equal value, these are just as good.

Laura Munson: Yeah. People come out here to Montana—again, I've lived here 30 years, but I'm originally from Chicago, so I'm originally a city girl. And I still sort of always think of myself as a city girl (laughs) first. And they say, "I love who I've been out here in nature."

Jennia: Ahh.

Laura Munson: There's a line that's that exact line in my novel that's published, Willa's Grove. When Jane, who's from New York City, says to Willa—I'm not Willa, but the main character who lives in Montana, "I love who I've been out here in nature." And Willa says to her, "But Jane, you are nature." And this is something that we knew as children but we've forgotten. We are nature. Of course it's different when you're walking around in the woods than it is being in an elevator in midtown Manhattan.

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: But you are nature even in an elevator in midtown Manhattan—you are nature. And to think that we're separate from nature is a critical misunderstanding (laughs).

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: You know, it's like, "Oh, I'm gonna go out and enjoy time with the trees and the birds and then I'm gonna go back to my cubicle"—

Jennia: Yes!

Laura Munson: —"and now I'm disconnected with that." Well, that's incorrect. You are nature wherever you are And that's not in the book, but—it's written in the book. But it's not one of the "Your Wild Why" call to actions. But, like—

Jennia: Mhm.

Laura Munson: —experience this day, wherever you are, with that thought that, "I am nature." And that's not, "Oh, it's lunch break. I'm gonna go outside and look at a tree."

Jennia: Right.

Laura Munson: Like, experience it right where you are. You are nature. Try that on and see how it feels.

Jennia: Yeah. Looking at it that way—or the way that people typically look at it, it just feels like compartmentalizing your life. Here's my 10 minutes in nature, now I'm back to office, now I'm back to here. As if these are all separate segments that don't combine into your whole lived experience and who you are

Laura Munson: Yep. Beautifully said. We are preaching to the same choir (both laugh).

Jennia: Thank you! So what parting message would you like to leave listeners with?

Laura Munson: I mean, listen, when you hear these phrases that, again, you did not know when you were little, but you've adopted them because somebody said them to you and you have habituated the thought pattern: I'm stuck. I don't have a voice. I'm not creative. What I say doesn't matter. Somebody else has already done it better than I ever could. It's self-indulgent at best. People will judge me—

Jennia: Ahh, yes.

Laura Munson: —When you hear all those refusals, just know that they are fear.

Jennia: Mmm.

Laura Munson: And if you're not a writer and you're listening, then the same goes with all of your self-expression. The way that you speak, the way that you think. Start with the way you think. Become kind to yourself in your own mind because no one's gonna do that for you. You've got to do that for yourself. And it does not make you anybody's lesser fool by being kind to yourself in your mind. In fact, your life depends on it.

Jennia: Yes!

Laura Munson: A happy, fulfilled life depends upon you being kind to yourself in your own mind. And then from there, the self-expression flows, whether it's verbal, whether it's—well, first of all, a thought. Or then verbal or written. So begin with self-kindness and playfulness—even and especially if you're writing about something that's really difficult . . . Listen, you can find playfulness no matter what's going on in your life. And playfulness is often the way that we get through difficult things. So find that wonder. It's in you. It will never die, but you might have to resuscitate it.

Jennia: Well, that is such a—just a refreshing reminder and a note to leave on. Thank you so much for that!

Laura Munson: Oh, well, thank you, Jennia! Thank you for the good work you do in the world!

Jennia: Aww, same to you!

Jennia: And thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information. And then please join me next week when author Jeff Wenninger will talk about what you should do when you're writing in hopes of seeing change. Thanks again!