346. Humanizing Science Fiction with Brad C. Anderson

Author and professor Brad C. Anderson discusses the importances of realistic characters in sci fi, the role of fear in the genre, and how the term "hero" can be subjective.

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Visit Brad's website and grab a copy of his Ashme's Song:
https://bradanderson2000.com/

Check out Brad on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/bradanderson2000

Transcript

 Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D’Lima. Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. Science fiction introduces us to concepts, characters, and places that may seem vastly different from our own and maybe even unrelatable to some extent. But authors can still add some very human elements, such as a focus on family, feelings of fear, and acts of heroism. And here to talk about how this can be accomplished is author Brad Anderson.

Jennia: Well, first, thank you so much for being here!

Brad Anderson: Thank you for having me! It's great to be here. Happy to be here!

Jennia: Yes, I'm happy you are too! Your most recent book touches on a few timeless themes. So could you start off by giving us a summary of what the story is about?

Brad Anderson: Sure thing, yeah! So my most recent book is called Ashme's Song. It is a science fiction novel. Focuses on themes of, like, what does it mean to be heroes? Basically what it's about—the main character, her name is Ashme. She's living in a society that's undergoing a tumultuous time, on the verge of civil war. And she's torn. She's this young woman, she wants to be a part of fighting for her people, but she has a special needs brother that she's the primary caretaker for. And she's kind of torn between the young part of her—she wants to join the fight, but she also feels this family obligation. What's the best thing to do? Should she get her family out and become refugees? Or should she stay, add her strength to the struggle? And yeah, that's kind of where the story goes, watching her wrestle with that.

Jennia: Before we get into, yeah, more of the questions, I'd also like you to tell us a little bit more about Ashme's character because she does have some things that make her different from your everyday person.

Brad Anderson: Yeah! So of course it is science fiction. So yeah, she actually has some skills and abilities that would make her a valuable member of any resistance. So the world that I created there, way back in the distant past, there were AI that achieved singularity and sentience. That was a very tumultuous and scary time in the history of the world. And for reasons that nobody understands—because who could understand those types of intelligences?—

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: —One day, all of those AI, they just left. But before they left, they modified the DNA of some individuals. In the story we call them Indigo Children. And these individuals have been modified so that they are able to interact with technology at a distance. So sort of through willpower, through sort of their thoughts, they're able to connect with technology and they're able to manipulate it. So they become amazing hackers and computer systems engineers. She's one of these people. So she's currently sort of making her life just on the fringes of society as a hacker. But, yeah, as I say, as her society kind of crumbles into civil war, and she—

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: —She does have something to add. So, yeah, those are her abilities, her background. She grew up in this household with her brother. Her father went off to fight the war way back when she was young. And she's been kind of— You know, her father was held in great respect, venerated as a hero in her neighborhood. So she kind of grew up with that, wants to follow in his footsteps. She has these cool abilities that would allow her to help. But as I say, she's got her special needs brother that she's kind of the main caretaker for these days.

Jennia: Mhm. So that actually leads into one of the questions I had, which was that you have an original angle to the caretaker and dependent trope. So how did you sensitively approach this while steering away from the stereotype representations that we still see so commonly shared?

Brad Anderson: Yeah. Alright, so that's a fun question. There's probably a couple of parts in that question.

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: So one is, like, what's the caretaker trope? So in a lot of media these days, when you want to saddle a main character with, like, a family dependent, usually it's like a kid, right? So it's like a parent and a child or some kind of adult and a child and stuff like that. And to me, I feel like I've seen that so much that I'm kind of done with it. I don't find that interested (sic) anymore. But I still wanted to create this family dynamic. I wanted her to be pulled between her family and—versus going off and fighting. So I still needed a dependent that this character had to look after, but I didn't want to have, like, a child because they say that's been overdone. The idea is, is that they're actually twins. They're fraternal twins. And, yep, her brother has this neurological— It's a genetic disability that results in cognitive challenges, and some physical challenges as well, and so on, right?

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: So that was the caretaker aspect—that was the dependent. And part of that was I wanted to try to find something original that wasn't just parent looking after their child. Also, in my work, I feel accessibility is important, representation is important, and I mean— You know, I felt that there is an opportunity to bring that to the novel. How did I do that with sensitivity? Probably spent about a year of research. Probably about a year—it took me a long time to write this story. I've been working on this story for about eight years. And, let's see, took me, yes, about a good solid year of research, learning about it and how to present it well. I also— You know, I try to give the character agency. Like, he's not just like a basket of burden that somebody has to carry along. Like, he—

Jennia: Right.

Brad Anderson: —has agency, he has wants. He actually drives a lot of the plot himself as well. So, yeah. Trying to actually make sure that he was a character within the story that did drive the plot. As I say, he's, like— Oftentimes with the dependent situation, like, I called it like a basket of burden, right? Just somebody you have to carry along, right?

Jennia: Right. We also see a lot of those preachy messages where they're used to bring out some moral lesson or here's what we've learned from this dynamic or this person. Yeah. They aren't really given agency. They're more of this vehicle for getting that across.

Brad Anderson: Right, exactly. Right? And that was part of the challenge was, like, I want to give them agency, but I also wanted to be true to the disabilities that they had as well, right? I think sometimes in stories, like, disabilities might be romanticized or they might be able to be more competent than they might actually be in real life in order to make the message. And so, yeah, it was like, how do I be true to this person's issues while still giving them agency? Walking that balance there, right? Because how do—

Jennia: Mhm, yeah. Or even making it their entire identity. We see that sometimes too. Not so much now, but I know even just from books I read as a child or a teen, that really became, like, their defining feature.

Brad Anderson: Yeah, I know, right? I know exactly what you mean. Like, this person is the insert demographic person—

Jennia: Right.

Brad Anderson: —That's all they are, right? And it's like, nope—and so part of the character building for him was, like, yeah, giving him hopes, giving him dreams, giving him things that he wants to accomplish. And then as this conflict ensues within society, like, he has feelings and wants and hopes with that, as well, that might be the same or might be different from his sister's. Like, there's overlap, there's some things that are the same, but certainly differences. So, yeah, just giving him the agency to be able to kind of be his own person.

Jennia: Yeah. And I think the sibling dynamic helps with that, too, because when we have a parent child, there's not that same sense of obligation or even unconditional love sometimes—

Brad Anderson: Yeah.

Jennia: —we might associate with a parent. Where siblings more likely to say, "You know what, you're annoying me," or they're going to have their little spats. Especially with twins, where it feels like there's more of that equal footing. It's not like, "Well, I'm the firstborn and you are five years younger" and whatever. So you take away a lot of that.

Brad Anderson: Yeah. So another thing I think I tried to explore with this as well is there is a caretaker dynamic. So for Ashme, she's not the parent, she's the sister, but she's the primary caretaker now. Just that's how the circumstances kind of went, right? And it's— Like, as a parent, you're like, okay, this is my child and I need to look after my child. Whereas with a sibling, you're like, I'm supposed to—like, I'm supposed to lead my own life. Right? Like, this isn't my child. This is— You know, I'm supposed to lead my own life. Right? So there's a little bit of that—she deals with a little bit of those feelings as well. The role of caretaker was thrust upon her. She never chose it. And so that's part of the conflict within her, is that she wants to go out and be the hero. And in any other circumstance she might have been able to do that, but she had this role thrust upon her and she feels that obligation and, yeah, just sort of wrestling with that. Yeah.

Jennia: Yeah. Well, looking at another one of the themes you covered, do you think that the definition of heroism differs based on the circumstances or the world that the character lives in?

Brad Anderson: Yeah. So, as I say, I've been working on this story for a long time. And so the initial idea for this story came way back when. I think it's like 2015—2016 or so. The first Syrian refugee crisis from way back when—you know, your— I'd say it's about 10 years ago (Jennia laughs) now. And I remember when the civil war started in Syria and there was refugees that were flooding into Europe—

Jennia: Oh right.

Brad Anderson: —and into America and so on, that there were certain right wing—or certain media of different political persuasions that would—You know, they looked at pictures of all these streaming people, these refugees coming, and they're like, "Look, at all these young men. They shouldn't be running away from the fight. They should be"—

Jennia: Ohh.

Brad Anderson: —"staying in their country and fighting for their country," right? It was— Part of the argument, like, "Why are all these refugees here? Those guys should be back fighting for their homeland, not running away." And I remember seeing that in the news and thinking, kind of seems like part of the problem in Syria—or at any country in this situation—is that there's an awful lot of people that are willing to kill people for their country and maybe we need less of that. And it just got me think[ing] like, like, we have this idea of the hero as somebody who rises up and fights for their people. Like, that's kind of the stereotype of what a hero is. But is somebody who grabs her family and gets out and, like, travels halfway across the world to get their family to safety, like, is that not heroic also? Like, are they not also heroes? Like, what's the heroic thing to do? To stay and fight or to, like, get your family and get out of there and—

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: —just say that got me thinking about that. And that was really the seed that this story was born out of.

Jennia: Yeah, that's interesting! I think there are definitely cultural perceptions that play a part in that and how we individually define hero as a society, but also just based off your gender, or your socioeconomic status, or all these other socio-demographic factors that don't usually get mentioned, but we do see them indirectly come up when we're telling a story.

Brad Anderson: Yeah, yeah.

Jennia: Here's what's expected of you because you do this or you're this person. And then here's what's expected of you because you're the opposite.

Brad Anderson: Absolutely. I also kind of wanted to play with that a little bit in the story as well. Like, the main character who wants to stand up and fight is a female. And in our society, like, they're supposed to be the caretakers. They don't pick up arms and fight. And here she is, she's like, "I don't want to be the caretaker, I want to fight." And—

Jennia: Right!

Brad Anderson: —there's other—

Jennia: Yeah, so then are you a rebel or are you a hero? Or are you both?

Brad Anderson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally! Totally. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I kind of wanted to play with those dynamics. Other characters in the story, like her cousin Ganzer— She has a cousin. So just expanding the family dynamic. There's like her and her brother, but her and her brother are not completely alone. She's living with her cousin—who's about the same age as her, roughly—and their great aunt, her cousin's, like, great grandmother kind of thing, and she's also dependent. And so the cousin's kind of looking after the grandmother. She— Ashme's looking after her brother. And, again, Ganzer is this, like, big muscle-bound guy with anger issues, but he's like, "We need to get out of here." And so, again, I kind of wanted to play just, I guess, opposite to tropes, just try to create these oppositions to get people thinking about it. So here you have, in our society, women are supposed to be caretakers. In our society, that's whatever you want to call—

Jennia: Like the default setting.

Brad Anderson: —patriarchal view.

Jennia: Yeah.

Brad Anderson: So I flipped it—like, she's feeling the tension, but she wants to fight. The guy that's supposed to be the rugged fighter, he's like, "I want to get my grandma and get out of here," and sort of create those little—those oppositions. Like, oppositions in characters—they want different things—but then also oppositions to what our expectations are as well. Get us to think about things.

Jennia: Which is also brave. So maybe that's an act of self-heroism, being able to say to yourself, "I'm going to reject the societal standard and follow what would make me happy or fulfilled."

Brad Anderson: Yeah. You know, oftentimes I think we make choices that aren't true to our heart because we feel that it's expected of us. Like, I went through that with my career. It's not nearly as dramatic as the story (Jennia laughs), but, yeah, you kind of—I think a lot of us make choices because we feel like, well, that's what's expected. That's what we're supposed to do. Right? And not necessarily what's true to our hearts.

Jennia: Yeah. Or the fear of what others will think of us, or the fear of getting it wrong. Which is a nice little segue into the next question, and something else you cover . . . that you have different types of fear in your book. And so what are some of these? And then how did you get them across?

Brad Anderson: So a theme that I think I try to I think—and so this is a belief, I don't know, you might be able to find empirical data on it—but sort of I feel a lot of violence comes from fear. Right? Like—

Jennia: Mmm.

Brad Anderson: —fear of losing something or fear of somebody else causing harm to us. And so I think that sparks, I think, a lot of the violent (sic). They're coming after us, they're gonna take whatever from us. You know, the best defense is a good offense. I think I see that a lot in the world, and I tried to create that in the story. So in the world, the reason why civil war is starting to break out, there's two classes of people—two groups of people. One group, many generations ago, kind of came in and overran—took over this nation and have been oppressing and dealing with the population that was there originally, very unjustly and cruelly. And they do it out of fear. And that fear is not unjustified. Like, there is violence. There is terrorist acts. There are little acts of rebellion. Like, that fear is not unjustified. Like, these groups do cause violence to each other. So the dominant group is scared of the less dominant group because, well, there is violence, and so they clamp down on it. Right? And then the group that's being repressed, I mean, they're obviously suffering as well. And they're scared of the dominant group because they are totally being repressed and losing everything that they've had. And so, of course, they respond out of that as well. And it's like, both of you guys are, like, fighting each other because you're scared of each other. And, like, I don't know if you can, like, break that cycle. The only way you can get to peace is by breaking that cycle, right?

Jennia: Right.

Brad Anderson: I don't think both sides are sympathetic. Like, I think both sides have people that are good people, both sides have people that are scared and want to react out of that fear. Then both sides have people that want to take advantage of the chaos.

Jennia: Yeah.

Brad Anderson: And sort of expl— Like, it's not just black and white. Like, these are the good guys, these are the bad guys. But, like, within that dynamic, there's people that are acting out of fear. And maybe they're sympathetic. Like, they're not bad people. They're just scared. And if you were in their shoes, you might feel similarly yourself, right?

Jennia: Mhm. Well, thinking about individual characters, how did you decide when fear would motivate them or cause them to freeze in place?

Brad Anderson: Yeah. Alright, so that's a fun question (Jennia laughs). So interestingly, with Ashme—the main character, Ashme, she's this young woman, 20 years old, and, like, she's not a trained fighter. And, again, you have all these myths in our media about just people being awesome warriors and stuff like that. And she's sort of grown up on the fringes of society and poverty. Like, she's not, like, a warrior and stuff like that. And so when she's in these situations— Like, when things do turn violent and go bad, like, she's not trained for it. She doesn't respond in the stereotypically heroic way, right—

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: —that somebody who has actually received training and been in firefights before would respond. I mean, there are situations where, yeah, it is just, like, violence erupts and she just kind of freezes. Other situations where she tries to respond, but, again, she doesn't know the tactics. She doesn't know how guns work and stuff like that. Well, she act— Well, she does know how guns work (Jennia laughs), but, yeah, she doesn't know tactics—

Jennia: Well, yeah, it's different knowing the logistics versus actually—

Brad Anderson: —Like, you know that you've been trained to, like, take cover and, like, how to do— Like, you know, all the tac— And she does— She's never been taught any of that stuff, right?

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: So, yeah. You know, within the story, there are some characters who have had military training and they actually know, and they're like, "What are you doing?!" (Jennia laughs)

Jennia: Right. Which is a very real response, yeah.

Brad Anderson: Yeah (laughs)

Jennia: I even think about, you know, watching your kids start doing something for the first time and they have an idea of how it works, and they seem very confident in that. But, yeah, as someone who's done it 100 times, you're just watching, like, why would you do it that way?

Brad Anderson: This is, yeah (laughs), *pretending to be the expert witnessing the novice* "I have to depend on you?" Yeah. Like, I tried to create what I think are very real human reactions to, like, being exposed to extreme, like, these types of situations for the first time.

Jennia: Mhm.

Brad Anderson: As well as I say, there's people there that are trained and they're better. And then also, like, I think with all the main characters—expanding the characters more—I've talked to you about Ashme and her family, and they're kind of represent[ing] the class that's being oppressed.

Jennia: Right.

Brad Anderson: The other main character of the story, his name is Mason, and he's a member of the group that is doing the oppressing, right? And I look a lot at his family and his family dynamics and what's kind of going on there. And within his family, like, his wife, when she was a child, her school was bombed by a stray missile during a past civil war. So she's scared horrendously by the unrest that's happening and by this underclass that's rising up, right? And you can see why—like, she's had that experience and they have children of their own—

Jennia: Ahhh.

Brad Anderson: —and she's scared that her children are gonna have that same experience. And so she's, like, we gotta clamp down on these people. Right? And, like, she's, like, this scared mom who kind of has this old wound that's never been healed from her childhood, right?

Jennia: Yes!

Brad Anderson: So looking at it from that dominant class's perspective and, like, looking at that sort of expanding the family relationship there, where you can kind of start to see some of those dynamics. And so that issue—that mom's issue was completely driven by fear as well. That one character, Mason, like, he's her husband, he's the father of their children, and he was, "Okay, like, how do I make my family okay as well?" So yeah.

Jennia: I like that you mentioned core wounds, because that is—and it doesn't even matter which genre we're looking at—that is usually something that propels our fear or creates those fear responses. Not just in characters, but even in real life. Which is why I think we find it so identifiable when we see something similar happening, even if it's not a situation we will ever be in, or a world that even somewhat resembles our own.

Brad Anderson: I know, yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. And I think the best— I find the best fantasy have that core human element that's real—

Jennia: Yes!

Brad Anderson: —that you can like, "Oh, yeah, I get it."

Jennia: Mhm. Well, your worldbuilding was also written to fit a theme, I remember you saying. So can you explain how you did this?

Brad Anderson: So that's one of the fun things with science fiction, is that you can just create whatever world you need to tell the story you want to tell, right?

Jennia: Right.

Brad Anderson: Whereas if you're just fiction, you're, like, kind of stuck with the world as it is.

Jennia: Unless you do magical realism. But yeah (laughs)

Brad Anderson: Yeah, yeah! So, yeah, elements got added to the story through the creation process, right? But that original impetus was sort of exploring, like, what is heroism?

Jennia: Mmm.

Brad Anderson: Is a hero somebody who fights for the country or takes their family and runs? Okay, so, I need to create a world where there is a situation where people face the choice: should I rise up and fight or should I take my family and run? So that's what creates the world that you have to build, right? That theme that you want to explore. So, alright, you need to create this dynamic where there's a civil war breaking out, or some kind of war breaking out. Alright, that means I need to have two sides and that those two sides need to have a history, right? As I'm developing out the story, alright, I need to figure out, like, who the character is, and, like, what led them to be who they are, and what led them to want the things that they want. So that starts to build up the character history, that character history necessitates elements, again, some more things you have to build into the world. So yeah, I can get down into the weeds and talk about this for hours, obviously (Jennia laughs), but the long story short is, like, yeah, you think about, like, what are the themes that you want to explore and you sort of create the world that's into it—

Jennia: Ahh yeah.

Brad Anderson: —that you need to explore that. Plus—

Jennia: —I can even think maybe a world that supports those themes because I could see making a world that does the opposite a little bit. If you have this soft, cushy place that's just filled with meadows filled with flowers, but (laughs)

Brad Anderson: It's like, everybody, like— Yeah, it's like a post-scarcity society—

Jennia: A little utopia, yeah, might not support that as well as you'd like it to, right.

Brad Anderson: Yeah. Right. And so one of the things with SciFi is, like, you have to create the world, you have to create the technologies. What can they do? What can't they do? And stuff like that. And so, yeah, you need to kind of build the science fiction elements. Like, why are they still fighting? Like, why— Don't we have, like, replicators in Star Trek where you can just make all the food?

Jennia: Right. It can't be just because (laughs).

Brad Anderson: Yeah, right. So, yeah, all those— You have to start making all those types of decisions about what explains why this is happening and then, yeah, create the history. I don't know, I always enjoy that aspect a little bit. That's kind of a fun creative process for me.

Jennia: Well, thank you so much. And before we go, do you have any upcoming projects or maybe other exciting news you can share?

Brad Anderson: So right now, buy Ashme's Song if you're interested. I have another book as well that I published previously called Duatero, which is—also kind of looks at human nature in extreme situations. So either of those books, you can buy them on my website, BradAnderson2000.com, or wherever you buy books. Get hard copies or online copies. I am writing new books right now, but I'm a slow writer (Jennia laughs), so I am writing new books right now, but they're probably a long ways away from seeing the light of day.

Jennia: Alright, well, thank you again!

Brad Anderson: Thank you very much! Really enjoyed chatting with you and thanks for having me!

Jennia: Of course!

Jennia: And thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for additional information, including all of Brad's links. And then please join me next week when author Nick Berg will be here to explain what auto fiction is and what it isn't. Thanks again!